If you watched the game tonight, you'd see the graphic come on the screen to prove that the Suns aren't as bad defensively as everyone thinks.Opp ppg Difference - 8.08 points (2nd in NBA, behind Spurs)Opp FG% - 45.1% (tied with Spurs)Opp 3% - 36% (1st in NBA)Opp apg - 18.6 (6th in NBA)They have the 2nd best opp points per game. Look at the other stats. Sure, there are teams better then them on D, but they are still a top team on D.88-81 or 108-100, still an 8 point win. They score alot, and get other teams to play the Suns style of ball, which is why the final score is always so high.I alwasy thought they were just medeocre on D, but now that I look at the numbers, my mind has changed.
See they are still mediocre in my book. They have improved a lot, but they can still only play one style of ball and thats the run and gun style they play. They cant play a halfcourt game for long periods of time because they breakdown on both ends of the court. They do have players that are good defenders like Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Shawn Marion, but they still dont have someone that matches up well with Dirk Nowitzki or Tim Duncan. My whole thing is that in a 7 game series against the Spurs or Mavericks, they will lose because they lack to ability to play half court ball. Steve Nash can only push the tempo so much and keep it a fast break game. The Spurs and Mavs make other teams play half court in the playoffs. They ALWAYS have a 5 on the court which makes you have a big on the court as well that can gaurd them on the blocks. Numbers and stats go only so far. When it comes down to it, can they make stops when it matters? Can they stop Duncan in the post with less than 2:00 while they are down by 5? I just dont think they can.
Amare can match up with Duncan. he's quicker, and longer.Marion can, and has guarded Dirk before, and done a damn good job. Remember, Marions 6'7, Dirk is 7'0.Their D has improved TONS since last year, and so much from 04/05.
Dirk's stats this season against the Suns. 31 points, 8.5 reb, 3.5 Assists and shooting 49%. Those two games are also Maverick wins. I can also get last year's stats as well, but I just dont have them on hand. This also leaves Diaw gaurding Josh Howard. Howard this season against the Suns in 1 game had 16 points, 12 rebounds, and 3 assists and 41% from the field. Duncans stats against the Suns this year:In one game, he had 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 26 pionts and was 10-21 from the field in a San Antonio win. Like I said before, they dont have players that can gaurd Dirk or Duncan and that is who they are going to have to stop come playoff time.
I disagree with Pjcolpitts on this one. I think the suns have the talent but had some bad luck against both Dallas and San Antonio. 2 of the 3 losses came before Amare was inserted into the starting lineup. Having Kurt Thomas is key for the suns against Duncan. Bell can guard Josh Howard while Marion can guard Dirk. Suns probably need to go small against Dallas by putting Barbosa at the 2, Bell at the 3, and Marion at the 4 for the matchups to work in the suns favor. Dallas barely won their last game in Dallas.
What about Amare? Just like we have no answer for Dirk/Duncan neither San Antonio or Dallas has an answer for Amare. With these 3 teams it will come down to supporting casts as those 3 will pretty much balance each other out from a production stand point (is it even possible to consider Howard and Nash "supporting casts" )
I think the opponent's low fg% numbers are because they have to run so much to keep up with the suns.and ppg differential is good basketball, but not defense
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Jan 12 2007, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dirk's stats this season against the Suns. 31 points, 8.5 reb, 3.5 Assists and shooting 49%. Those two games are also Maverick wins. I can also get last year's stats as well, but I just dont have them on hand. This also leaves Diaw gaurding Josh Howard. Howard this season against the Suns in 1 game had 16 points, 12 rebounds, and 3 assists and 41% from the field. Duncans stats against the Suns this year:In one game, he had 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 26 pionts and was 10-21 from the field in a San Antonio win. Like I said before, they dont have players that can gaurd Dirk or Duncan and that is who they are going to have to stop come playoff time.</div>Amare can match up with Duncan. That game was when he was coming off the bench in like the first two weeks of the season right?I don't think the Suns have a top D, but they have a good defense, much better than anyone on this board gives them credit for. We are also a top 10 shot blocking team because of Amare now and get a good amount of steals too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Jan 12 2007, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Amare can match up with Duncan. That game was when he was coming off the bench in like the first two weeks of the season right?I don't think the Suns have a top D, but they have a good defense, much better than anyone on this board gives them credit for. We are also a top 10 shot blocking team because of Amare now and get a good amount of steals too.</div>Now ASUFan, I do think they have an improved defense, but is it a championship defense? I dont think so. This is how I see it; in a 7 game series against the Spurs or Mavericks, they will lose because they dont have a great defense in the last 2:00 minutes.Reasons they lose close games1)They don't have a "Go-To player" who can score in crunch time. I'm not talking about someone who takes the last shot. I'm talking more about someone who can score to keep them ahead in the game. Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant, D-Wade, Gilbert Arenas are all great examples of this. Somone the coach builds the offense around to get scores and slow the game down. They really dont have a "2:00 minute offense" so to speak. They play the same way all the time.2)They cant get stops in close games. They dont have the personnel to stop Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, etc. Yes, you have Raja to gaurdshooting guards, but Kobe really tore you guys up last season in the playoffs. This season this is the Suns record in games decided by 5 points or less and overtime games. Your 6-5 and 1-3 in overtime games. Now thats better than last year, but not by much. Compare that to the Mavericks who are 5-2.Reasoning, Mavericks can score and defend in crunch time while the Suns have a harder time doing it. Here's also something, the reason why the Suns arent out of any games is the same reason they can give up huge leads. The style they play tends to be a double edged sword. They can get back into a game when they are down by double digits just as easy as they can let a team back in. They go through a dry spell on offense while the other team gets hot and all of a sudden its a tie game.
They don't need an elite defense when their offense is a good amount better than any contender coming out of the West. Nash is our scorer in crunch time. He has helped us catch up or keep small leads since he got he, he has been incredibly clutch when he is needed to be. I feel safe with Amare down low too, especially if Duncan or any other big is in foul trouble in the 4th quarter.They can get stops when needed. They haven't lost many games due to bad defense at the end of games. In the few close games we played they losses were due to missed easy lay-ups and free throws which is not the norm for this team and hasn't happened since the beginning of the season. We also lost some games because of too many turnovers, and I congratulate Dallas on that, but if the Suns take care of the ball the other team doesn't get too many easy shots the whole game. We do have a better record in close games, much better than last year, but last year we were better at it in the playoffs and we will be again this year. The Suns started off the first 9 or so games really slow and I think 2 of those close losses were because of that. Now with Amare in the starting line-up and contributing the Suns are a better team than at the start of the season and the team chemistry has been much better.All teams give up big leads sometimes. Take out that slow start when Diaw was out of shape, Amare wasn't playing, there was bad chemistry, Raja was missing shots, and also the Memphis game were D'Antoni emptied the bench too early(even though it was such a huge lead it was a blow-out anyway) and we are not bad at keeping the leads.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Suns are a top defensive team</div>Yeah, and the Knicks are winning the Eastern Conference this year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Jan 12 2007, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1)They don't have a "Go-To player" who can score in crunch time. I'm not talking about someone who takes the last shot. I'm talking more about someone who can score to keep them ahead in the game. Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant, D-Wade, Gilbert Arenas are all great examples of this. Somone the coach builds the offense around to get scores and slow the game down. They really dont have a "2:00 minute offense" so to speak. They play the same way all the time.</div>So Nash isn't a go-to player? How about a go-to play as the pick and roll. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Jan 12 2007, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>2)They cant get stops in close games. They dont have the personnel to stop Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, etc. Yes, you have Raja to gaurdshooting guards, but Kobe really tore you guys up last season in the playoffs. This season this is the Suns record in games decided by 5 points or less and overtime games. Your 6-5 and 1-3 in overtime games. Now thats better than last year, but not by much. Compare that to the Mavericks who are 5-2.</div>The mavs couldn't stop Kobe either. Raja is just as good of option on Kobe as any the mavs have. I think the mavs fans are in the same boat of thought that the spurs had in the past. The best defensive team always wins logic which isn't always true. In that case the mavs should've beat the suns 2 years ago and the spurs should've beat the mavs last year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Lefty @ Jan 12 2007, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, and the Knicks are winning the Eastern Conference this year.</div>GREAT ARGUEMENT!!! :happy0144: :thumbdn1: But mavfan, you keep saying 'in the last 2 minutes'... If the Suns play their type of ball the entire game, they won't need to worry about the last 2 minutes, they'll be up by 10+ if they play their tempo the entire game. NO ONE in the league can keep up with that tempo, tthe only way to stop it is to attempt to slow it down.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jammin @ Jan 13 2007, 01:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GREAT ARGUEMENT!!! :happy0144: :thumbdn1: But mavfan, you keep saying 'in the last 2 minutes'... If the Suns play their type of ball the entire game, they won't need to worry about the last 2 minutes, they'll be up by 10+ if they play their tempo the entire game. NO ONE in the league can keep up with that tempo, tthe only way to stop it is to attempt to slow it down.</div>That's the problem...no team CAN play at that tempo for an entire game, and the Suns prove night in and out they can't keep it up. They won't be able to force the Mavs or Spurs to play their style...where as the Mavs and Spurs can force the Suns into a half court game. No one can keep up with the Suns pace...but the Suns can't always force their pace...so they do have a double edge sword in the way they play.
Praise from Jameer Nelson. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>?To be honest with you, in the first half they shut us down with their defense,? Nelson said. ?They took us out of our game.?</div> The numbers didn't really show it but I'll take the word of the person who played against it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Jan 12 2007, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>but they still dont have someone that matches up well with Dirk Nowitzki or Tim Duncan.</div>I'm too tired to read the whole thread, but wasn't it Amare who averaged almost forty points versus Duncan two years ago? He's a more complete player on a much better team. It's the West that has no answer for STAT.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Downtown @ Jan 15 2007, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm too tired to read the whole thread, but wasn't it Amare who averaged almost forty points versus Duncan two years ago? He's a more complete player on a much better team. It's the West that has no answer for STAT.</div>And yet who won the series? The Spurs even won it in 5 games. Let's look at Duncan's numbers too.27.4pts, 13.8reb, 3.2ast, and 52.7FG%Suns only averaged 13 fast break points a game in that series. They got outscored in the paint and also outscored out in the 4th quarter as well. They cant gaurd the paint and then they let teams back in the game in the 4th quarter due to thier less than stellar defense.I'm also going to stop arguing my point in this thread and wait until playoff time.
I think that opponnets percentages are down because when teams try and keep up with the Suns, they have to force bad and quick shots. if you consider that a good defensive team, then you are entitled to your opinion, but its really their offense that makes the other teams FG% worse. And they beat their teams by more than most teams because of their offense. that is what it always has been with Phoenix.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Jan 15 2007, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And yet who won the series? The Spurs even won it in 5 games. Let's look at Duncan's numbers too.27.4pts, 13.8reb, 3.2ast, and 52.7FG%Suns only averaged 13 fast break points a game in that series. They got outscored in the paint and also outscored out in the 4th quarter as well. They cant gaurd the paint and then they let teams back in the game in the 4th quarter due to thier less than stellar defense.I'm also going to stop arguing my point in this thread and wait until playoff time.</div>Amare was a terrible defensive player back then. He's better now and 2 years ago with both him and Hunter they did a solid job defensively so I think if Kurt can stay healthy they will be fine. We won't be able to stop Dirk though. That fadeaway shot can't be stopped.Ballerman, you have a point but I have seen an improvement on D. I don't think they are a top defensive team but they are good.
