Wow... As a father to hear that sucks... And Austin rivers is playing a lot better than he used to. He played well most of the season and really showed up in the playoffs.
Wow... Just Wow... Guys... We don't sound like this.... I think most of us analyze our team and logically assess its deficiencies. Then prescribe our own fix for said deficiencies. This guy is just outta his mind... C'mon now... You should at the VERY LEAST agree that Harden is a flopper... But no... You double down and defend his flopping like Portland Oregon doesn't know basketball. Nah bruh... You're fuckin' with the High IQ crowd here. And no amount of spin is gonna take the paper Burger King crown off of his head. Houston, TX, Home of "The Flopper".
No, he's disagreeing with my definition of aesthetically pleasing. No way in hell do I find Blake Griffin's game more aesthetically pleasing than Tim Duncan's in any way, shape or form. His assumption that I would is an incorrect assumption. I see the beauty in Tim Duncan's game. I always have. To assume I don't is incorrect on his part. BNM
I have to agree with this 100%. Rivers was a bust in NO. They expected him to be a star and make an immediate impact. They forced him into a starting role when he clearly wasn't ready. When the Clipps picked him up, I thought it was just his dad saving him from the D league or a career playing overseas. The kid has improved by leaps and bounds. He has gone from a bust to a solid rotation player to someone who could be a good starter in this league. Props to his dad for not giving up on him and props to Austin for putting in the work to improve his game. And seriously, how could you not respect the kid after what he did last night? BNM
No, I understood it completely. He knew I'd prefer Tim Duncan's game, but he assumed I'd somehow find Blake Griffin's game more aesthetically pleasing, that I was one of the sheep that is impressed by flashy play, winning slam dunk contests, being coddled by the NBA hype machine and landing countless national advertising deals. I am not. BNM
It was merely to illustrate that your previous quote about being aesthetically pleasing: Doesn't really mean anything.
If not even trying to play defense doesn't really mean anything, then I guess we're just going to have to disagree and move on. That is fully one half of what I find aesthetically unappealing about James Harden's game. I mentioned it several times, so I assumed I was clear on that point. BNM
Well here is the problem, you are pretty much the first person to give Harden any credit for having any skill. Also it's not that Harden can't play defense, it's that his focus on defense lacks. Usually at the end of games he puts a lot more effort in playing defense. You know how I know this is true? The whole idea of him not giving effort on Defense is because he actually can lock in and play. While it is true that Harden plays more minutes than any other NBA player (Talk about being lazy) for me and many other Rocket fans it's hard to blame Harden on defense when the team as a whole fails on defense. As a Rocket fan that watched a JVG coached team I can tell you with full confidence, team defense starts with the coach. If your coach is dumb enough for example to have Beverly guarding Livingston or have Harden guarding PFs in the post then your defense is likely going to be pretty bad. Oh I know, I'll use this excuse that people are using for Harden's team success. "Lillard plays on a better team." you'll probably say "Yeah that's because of Lillard." and I'll tell you that Harden's deep playoff runs are also because of Harden. The same teammates he has this year? Wait, I've been told the Rockets were a horrible team and now suddenly they are a good team and I guess he just ruined it? Harden is one year older than Lillard, and that doesn't take away from his accomplishments. Harden gets his team to the WCF just one year ago and apparently that means absolutely nothing at all. Harden was a huge reason the Thunder made it to the finals, you'll say he wasn't the main option but you and others also say that he can't play on a team or be a team player...yet he did and found team success. For such a bad team player his teams (other than this ONE year) have had plenty of team success. Can you explain that? As to the rest of your post the other poster said what I meant. Aesthetically pleasing doesn't mean much no matter what it means to either of us. I'm an Astros fan and they are about as aesthetically pleasing a baseball team you can find. They go out and swing for the fences, have aggressive base runners, have a bunch of exciting young players and try to crush teams with hitting but they lost to a team who understood the basic principle of getting men on base and driving in runs by any means necessary. As an Astro fan as example it is frustrating as heck to have bases loaded and some player like Gomez come up to the plate and swing for the fences. I don't know what you think is aesthetically pleasing, but it's no secret that the Spurs have a rep for being "Boring" to casual fans and mostly because of Duncan. In the end it doesn't matter, results matter. I don't think Duncan is boring either, I respect all great players and that includes Duncan. That includes Dame. Some of them are more exciting to watch. You don't find Harden exciting, I personally do. He's been one of the best 4th quarter players in the league (the '15 season the Rockets thrived on winning late games) and for me it's exciting to see him cross over players, step back, throw bounce passes, and lead the fast break. TO ME he's more exciting than Klay because Klay is an off-ball shooter player. These players are highly effective but not as exciting for me. EDIT: For me a player that attacks the rim are the more exciting to me. I'd rather watch Westbrook and Wade than Curry, doesn't mean Curry is lesser than them. He isn't. That's just me, that's just what I like to see. I don't then say that because Curry is less exciting of a player or aesthetically pleasing that anything he's accomplished is null and void. That he isn't a great player. Players like Harden are. His game reminds me of Paul Pierce in that way, it's very methodical and it's all about exploiting angles and getting his man going back. To me Paul Pierce is more exciting to watch than Ray Allen, it doesn't make Allen less of a player. It just doesn't matter at all. What matters is results right? Harden gets results and produces. I just don't think being aggressive and attacking the rim is flopping. You must understand though I don't even care about Chris Paul flopping and some of this other stuff. Problem is NBA refs are stupid. They have issues. I'd tell your team to start learning how to flop on screens or else they are not going to call them. Mark my words. Many...MANY players sell contact going to the rim. The most common thing to do is to yell and shout like you've been hit. The funny thing about Harden is he apparently learned a lot about drawing fouls from Durant. Another guy that goes to the line a ton. I think Harden capitalizes on it though because he really is a tank and probably the strongest SG in the NBA.
"I'm going to go to a Blazer forum and argue that my favorite player is better than their favorite player."
I've never explicitly said that. I've always said that Harden accomplished more. I always settle on the fact that we'll know that time will tell. Damian Lillard is a player I think that is capable of being a championship player. Difference is I think that Harden is too. You are right that I would not trade Harden for Lillard, but it's not an insult to Lillard it's just that Harden is a great player too. That's all. I don't think there are many players outside of Lebron and maybe Chris Paul that could have dealt with what happened this season. I think the fact that Kobe, Nash, and Gasol all wanted no parts of Dwight. That Redick and Lewis didn't have much nice to say about him, and I imagine there will be players on this team talking about him when he goes to. Harden was the leader of that 2015 team and Howard was hurt and they won a lot and last season they never had to deal with him since he was hurt. They've played better every single time without Dwight. Maybe I'm wrong and it will be proven next season either way but I imagine it has to be hard to lead a team when he's the other leader of that team.
So because Harden has shown he can try harder every now and then, that makes it okay for him to not try at all for the majority of the time?
just addressing your comments to me.... Sounds like we're on the same page: Harden needs to play less so he has more energy for defense. To accomplish this he needs... 1) To trust his teammates so he doesn't have to carry the load himself. One could argue that he needs better teammates for that to happen - you be the judge. 2) To play defense the whole time he's in. A better coach would insist on this and play him south of 37 mpg. I'm an analytics guy, but there's a question as to whether Morey is just playing fantasy basketball out there. Instead of arguing about Harden, I'd really like your take on what the Rockets will do this offseason. Who's RFA, who's UFA, what pick do that have, who are they definitely letting go, what holes do you think the team has, how do you think they're going to address them, JBB gone?, deservedly so or not, what do you think of Morey? We don't like the Rockets, but I think we would all like to know what you think they're going to do. I/we are especially interested in Portland's own Terrence Jones - why he didn't play at the end (wasn't he healthy at the end of the season?)
You are wrong, there is no maybe about it, and we don't need to wait until next season to find out. In 2014-15. Dwight played in 41 games, exactly half the season. HOU record with Dwight, 29-12, record without Dwight, 27-14. So, marginally better with him and there is no way in fuck they make the WCF last year without Dwight Howard. He led all players in rebounding (RPG, DRB% and TRB%) for the post season. There is no way they get past the Clippers without Dwight. He didn't just neutralize Deandre Jordan in that series, he outplayed him. Just look at the last three games, when HOU came back from down 3-1 to win the series: Game 5: Deandre Jordan: 13 points, 11 rebounds Dwight Howard: 20 points, 15 rebounds Game 6: Deandre Jordan: 8 points, 9 rebounds Dwight Howard: 20 points, 21 rebounds Game 7: Deandre Jordan: 16 points, 17 rebounds Dwight Howard: 16 points, 15 rebounds Oh sure, Harden put up 31 points in Game 7, so to the simple minded, it may look like he had a good game. He shot .350 from the field, .286 from 3-point range and committed 7 TOV. That's a pretty typical Harden playoff stat line. He gets his points, but is an incredibly inefficient chucker. Game 6: 23 points on 5-20 shooting. More typical Harden... Any claims that Harden led the Rockets to the WCF last year are erroneous. It was actually Dwight Howard who led their comeback against LAC that got them there. Two years ago in the playoffs against the Blazers, Howard was, by far, the best player on the Rockets team. Harden was abysmal in that series. He shot 0.376 FG% and .296 3FG%. Dwight averaged 26.0 points, 13.7 rebounds and 2.8 blocks. He was the only reason HOU was even in that series. Sure, Dwight is getting old and has back issues that have limited his mobility, but statements like "They've played better every single time without Dwight." aren't just flat out bullshit, they are historically inaccurate. You want to blame all of HOU's problems on Howard and give Harden credit for any success they have. Hmmm, sounds familiar... BNM
It isn't okay but I realize even great players have their faults. Either skill wise or mental wise. I know that Hakeem sure had plenty. People say the same about a great many players that have actually won. He definitely needs to play less by his own admission he claims that playing a lot of minutes sort of wears on him and then carrying the offensive load. 1.) I think that's right, it goes both ways. He has to realize that his teammates can do a lot more for him. At the same time the team has to do a better job of using his teammates too. I have no idea why we keep running stuff where the end result is Corey Brewer getting a corner 3 for example or letting Ariza handle the ball or letting Dmo hang around the 3 point line. The coaches do a great job of letting players play to their weaknesses. 2.) This is why a lot of Rocket fans wanted Thibs, we didn't get Thibs though so now many want to go back to JVG. I don't mind JVG, he's the mentor of Thibs, Clifford, Malone all coaches that know how to instill discipline in a team. If JVG can't get Harden to play defense then no coach will. The problem with JVG is his offenses are usually pretty bland, but right now they need a coach that can connect with Harden. As for Morey he's a great GM, his issue right now is exactly that. This isn't NBA2k, you can't just plug a bunch of guys with good ratings in and get results. I think he needs to work more with his coach, the coach needs to tell Morey the type of player he needs and then Morey's job needs to be to get that player. Morey will up and trade guys and sometimes it feels like the coach knew little about that. That has to stop. I know McHale and Adelman at times almost seem frustrated at the trades even if they do work out in the end. Thankfully the word is that Les is in control of hiring the coach 100% so maybe this season has taught the Rockets something about organizational structure. Rockets will FA chase. Obviously the biggest name is Durant and many will laugh at that. If Durant feels he can't win with OKC AND if he doesn't want to tie his legacy to Curry or the Spurs then the Rockets just might be an option for him. He plays with a guy that did help him beat the Spurs and a best friend (Beasley also a childhood friend of durant lol) but it's not just Harden, they will have two max contracts to hand out so their first plan is to sell this idea to Durant. Come here and play with your pal Harden + Horford or Conley. While Durant will be a low chance, their plan will be to build their team with more guys that can create their shots and to get a coach that is well established. The Luke Walton thing is them kicking the tire, they always try to get as much information as possible.
What is Houston's record without Dwight this year, pray tell? Yeah, I'll let you find that one out for yourself. You know what, I'm not even going to argue this. What is funny is that Magic Fans, Laker Fans, and now Rocket fans were all ready to get rid of the guy. I'm sure three fanbases are wrong about the guy. I watch the guy every single night and you know what? If you are going to give Harden flack for not playing defense 100% of the time then you must give Dwight Flack for not giving effort unless he gets his way and only deciding to play in the playoffs. Saying it was Howard that led that comeback was wrong. It was Smith and Brewer. A comeback that would not have even been possible without Harden because the Clippers would have swept them in the first place without Harden. In fact you are doing the exact opposite. Blaming Harden for everything and not Dwight. Not sure how that makes you right and me wrong. Inefficient chucker...lol, yes like Kobe right? Results matter, the fact is Harden continues to be on successful teams and you are finding every excuse you can to just not admit that he's a great player.
