<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mobruler @ Jan 21 2007, 01:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I feel the Mavs are a good team even without Dirk. Playoffs for sure, 50 Ws... maybe. I go with the 3 guys I mentioned because I think they're the only 3 who's teams don't make the playoffs without them.</div>Dallas would definatey not be a 50 win team without Dirk Nowtizki. I dont even think that they would make the playoffs in the West without Nowitzki. He does so much for the team that it is ridiclous. Not only is he their leading scorer and leading rebounder, but he takes almost all of the big shots for the team, and he is the leader of the squad as well. If you took away Gilbert, Lebron, and Kobe away from their teams, they obviously wouldnt be good, but why would you take anything away from Dirk just because he has a better supporting cast? He is having a great season and he should at least be in the top 3.
okay Ballerman, I'd like to point out to you that the award is Most Valuable Player. As in who has the most value to his team. So when you say that if you take Dirk away Mavs could still win near 50 games, although taking him away hurts them it doesn't kill them. Meanwhile you said that if you took away Gilbert,LeBron, and Kobe those teams wouldn't be good. That's what value is, that one player that makes his team good. Of course Dirk is very valuable and I think he's definetely one of the frontrunners of this award I would just like to point out that you were kinda hurting your point.
You read my post wrong....I dont believe that if you took Dirk away from the Mavs that they would win 50 games. I said that I dont even think that they would make the playoffs in the west. Also, the Mavs are on a differnet level of basketball than the Lakers, Wizards, and Cavs are. Basically, if you took Dirk away from the Mavericks, their would be a very noticable difference in how good their teams would be. It is not fair to pentalize Dirk because he has a better supporting cast than the other teams do. If that was the case, Nash wouldnt have won the MVP the last two seasons. Phoenix still could have been a good team, but what made them one of the best teams was Nash' presence. I didnt hurt my point what so ever, you just read my post wrong.
GArenas, elaborate on why you think the league wouldn't ever give it to Kobe?And yeah, I wouldn't have any issue with Dirk winning the award. While his numbers are awesome and you could argue he's better than Lebron or Arenas, he most definately isn't more "<u>valuable</u>" to his team than them. The Wizards are nothing without Arenas, and they might win the Conference with him. The Lakers and Cavs are talking about drafting Greg Oden without Kobe and Lebron.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mobruler @ Jan 21 2007, 01:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Elaborate on why you think the league wouldn't ever give it to Kobe?</div> Kobe's not one of the league's favorite guys. Ballerman, my mistake in reading your point wrong. However, I do think that the Mavs would make the playoffs if you took Dirk away from the team. They have a good PG in Jason Terry, young talent in Devin Harris and Josh Howard although I don't think Howard would be ready to take on the team they would slow done however speed up shortly after. Well who would know who would play PF however Dampier is a great fit for the Mavs team splitting time w/ Diop at C. Not to mention their crowded bench w/ lots of veterans who can execute the game to the max.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jan 21 2007, 01:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe's not one of the league's favorite guys.</div>I figured that's where you were going with that. It's a shame too, but that's another topic.
Your right, they do have a great supporting cast, but if you took Dirk away from their team, you wouldnt have a PF to replace him. Their backup PF I believe is Austin Croschere...That would be such a big drop off that its not even funny. Teams would begin to guard them differently because their wouldnt be as much attention drawn to Dirk, and instead of guys like Bruce Bowen guarding him, he would be able to devote more time to guys that play his own position. Plus, in that Western Conference, it would be very tough.And one thing that I would like to say again, is that the Mavs are the best team in the NBA right now, so say that if Dirk was taken away from their team, and they made the 8th seed in the west, that would be like the Wizards winning 38 games without Gilbert or something like that....You just cant pentalize a player for having a good supporting cast. The MVP award isn't only who is the most valuable player to their team, because if that was the case, the Award would be going to Garnett every single year. Could you just imagine that team without him? The award gives attention to who is most valuable to thier team, but they also focus on team success, and personal success as well, and Dirk strives in both of those categories.
The last seed in the west is not thaaaaaat hard, it's like 2 games above .500, Mavs could definetely get that w/o Dirk. I'm not really penalizing him for having such a good supporting cast, but it's not solely him and a few other players that makes the team so good everyone on that team contributes they're very depe and that makes you wonder how much is value really is to the team.
It doesn't really make me wonder how important he is to the team, because I know that without him, they wouldnt be the best team in the NBA with the best record. He is still putting up over 25 PPG and around 10 RPG in 36 MPG. Also, Dirk's stats arent going to be as good because he does have those other good players on his team to score and get rebounds. I personally dont think that Dirk is going to win the MVP, but I definitely think he is in the top 3. You cant leave out a guy who is the leader and the best player on the best team in the league. Especially when he is putting up 25 and 10 in 36 minutes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jan 21 2007, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You just cant pentalize a player for having a good supporting cast. The MVP award isn't only who is the most valuable player to their team, because if that was the case, the Award would be going to Garnett every single year. Could you just imagine that team without him? The award gives attention to who is most valuable to thier team, but they also focus on team success, and personal success as well, and Dirk strives in both of those categories.</div>If one player was to be taken away from their team, Houston would have the biggest dropoff. Past 2 years Houston is 9-34 without him, including 2-6 this year.The MVP award, to me, should be cut into 4 categories:-Just how valuable are they to their team? I think Dallas and Phoenix would be playoff teams without their supertsars. Lakers, Wizards, Heat, Rockets and some other teams wouldn't.-Stats. They are the cream filling to the donut. You must have a fantastic year staistically.-Wins. If Kobe didn't win the award last year because his team won only 45 games then the bar must be ridiculously high. This is why, despite Arenas having a great seaosn, why I don't think he is a top 2 candidate right now. If he wins it with only 45-50 wins, with the kind of years Kobe and Bron had last year, then I'd say there is some kind of consperacy.-Intangibles. Just how good were they? Were they the best player in the league? Did they do anything historic? Many more things in this category.Dirk has not had a career year and his teammates have been great and really been amazing. His stats are dropped off from last year. I just can't put him as MVP.Nash is the PG of his teams, has had a career year, and has had many of the intangibles I was talking about. Kobe and Arenas are probably, out of the main 5 or so candidates, the most valuable to their teams. Both have had career years in their own ways, and both fill up the intangibles. If Arenas can get his team a few games over 50 wins, then I'd probably give him the edge over Kobe.
I never said that I thought Dirk was the MVP. The post that I originally replied to had Dirk out of the top 3. And Dirk's minutes have been down this year, and he has teammattes who have been ivolving that score more. Just because your stats arent as amazing as previous years doesn't mean you cant win the MVP. His team is the best in the NBA right now and he is the leader and best player on his team. He should be in the top 3.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jan 21 2007, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I never said that I thought Dirk was the MVP. The post that I originally replied to had Dirk out of the top 3. And Dirk's minutes have been down this year, and he has teammattes who have been ivolving that score more. Just because your stats arent as amazing as previous years doesn't mean you cant win the MVP. His team is the best in the NBA right now and he is the leader and best player on his team. He should be in the top 3.</div>Duncan's team was best in league last year, he was best player on team and leade rof team....did you even have him in your top 5?
Actually, Detroit was the best team in the league last year.And, no I didnt have him in my top 5. But first of all, he wasn't putting up 25 PPG, second of all, Dallas this year is better than San Antonio last year, and third of all, Duncan wasnt even the leading scorer of the Spurs last year...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jan 21 2007, 01:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually, Detroit was the best team in the league last year.And, no I didnt have him in my top 5. But first of all, he wasn't putting up 25 PPG, second of all, Dallas this year is better than San Antonio last year, and third of all, Duncan wasnt even the leading scorer of the Spurs last year...</div> Detroit record-wise was the best team in the league last year, but they played in the much weaker East and did not have to face Dallas and Houston 4 times a year. Why are you only talking about points btw? Duncan although he had a weak season last year was the still the team leader and still very dominant on the inside. Not to mention he was still a very good rebounder.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jan 21 2007, 01:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually, Detroit was the best team in the league last year.And, no I didnt have him in my top 5. But first of all, he wasn't putting up 25 PPG, second of all, Dallas this year is better than San Antonio last year, and third of all, Duncan wasnt even the leading scorer of the Spurs last year...</div>Ah, forgot about Pistons. But Duncan still was leader of the team, still put up 19/11/3/2 on 48% shooting, etc... Let's take Pistons, then. Would you have put Billuips over Nash, James or Kobe?
Yes, Dirk has a great supporting cast, and that will hurt him, but it shouldn't.His numbers have dropped because he's not having to play tons of minutes like Kobe, Nash, and Arenas, and doesn't have to put up stat crushing numbers night in and out to win games like those guys do.But he does alot of things that help the Mavs, and if you've been paying attention to the Mavs as of late, you'd know that Dirk has stepped up BIG Time, especially on nights when the rest of the team is struggling, and putting up absolutely sick numbers to the tune of averaging like 30 and 11, plus some assists most nights recently.The guy is a bonafide MVP candidate, and one of the top 5 players in the League, hands down.Nash has an incredible supporting cast, and always has in PHX, but that hasn't stopped him from winning the MVP...it shouldn't stop Dirk either if he deserves it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Jan 21 2007, 02:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash has an incredible supporting cast, and always has in PHX, but that hasn't stopped him from winning the MVP...it shouldn't stop Dirk either if he deserves it.</div>In his first seaosn he brought a 35 win team to a 60 win team, and did it with a career year and made everyone around him much better. The next year, with Amare down and everyone doubting the Suns, he improved even more and made nobodies into somebodies. This year he has been even better, only 1 win out of best team in league status, and he is doing his thing.
^The fact remains he has a good supporting cast.Who's to say the Mavs wouldn't be a 35 win team without Dirk? They probably would be slightly better than that, say 40-42 wins, but definately not a 60 win team that's for sure.
Dallas is on pace to a 66 win season with Dirk. Without Dirk they probably win about 45 games. That's a 21 game difference. Pretty huge imo.
