<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Jan 21 2007, 04:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dallas is on pace to a 66 win season with Dirk. Without Dirk they probably win about 45 games. That's a 21 game difference. Pretty huge imo.</div>JO's pacers won 61 games in 03-04 compared to KG's T-Wolves who won 58....yet KG won the award pretty handedly. And there would be a huge dropoff if either left their team, porobably Pacers moreso.As I keep saying, just being the best player on the best team in the league isn't enough.
^Well then stop looking at it like that's the only reason he's in the discussion.Dirk is good enough to win the award on his own merit...but his teams success does help, just like it has with Nash, and TD(who never has put up great numbers), and the like.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Jan 22 2007, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^Well then stop looking at it like that's the only reason he's in the discussion.Dirk is good enough to win the award on his own merit...but his teams success does help, just like it has with Nash, and TD(who never has put up great numbers), and the like.</div>TD never put up great numbers? So 25/13/4/3 on 51% shooting isn't great? Statistically and just by going by watching the games he is not having a better season than Nash, Kobe or Arenas. From there you have to go on personal judgement of what warrents an MVP of the league.
His shooting % is equal to Nash's, and he's scoring more points, but Nash takes the assist catagory.Kobe and GA score more points on more shots and a lesser shooting %, but then again their teams aren't as good as PHX and Dallas.So it comes down to Nash and Dirk...and I'll take the big.BTW, TD has always put up decent numbers, but he hasn't put up ungodly numbers like Nash and AI and such...he's been rewarded because of his team's success.Get off the Dirk hatorade...yes other's are deserving, but the fact that some of us are picking Dirk shouldn't be held against us.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Jan 22 2007, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>His shooting % is equal to Nash's, and he's scoring more points, but Nash takes the assist catagory.Kobe and GA score more points on more shots and a lesser shooting %, but then again their teams aren't as good as PHX and Dallas.</div>But Kobe is also carrying his team without their 2nd option, playing much better D than Dirk, been amazing as Dirk in the clutch, and also averaging over 5APG. GA is having an amazing year statistically, carrying his team, a few 50pt games, a 60pt game, many game winning shots, and his team is 2nd I believe in the East. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>So it comes down to Nash and Dirk...and I'll take the big.BTW, TD has always put up decent numbers, but he hasn't put up ungodly numbers like Nash and AI and such...he's been rewarded because of his team's success.</div>I don't know what you call godly, but 25/13/4/3 on 51% shooting is about as good as it gets statisitically. Not to mention TD was also one of the best defensive PF's/C's in the league at the time.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Get off the Dirk hatorade...yes other's are deserving, but the fact that some of us are picking Dirk shouldn't be held against us.</div>I'm not holding it against you guys, I understand why you'd pick Dirk as MVP, I just feel that their are 3 players more deserving right now. I am not one of those people that believe that just because you are the best player on the best team in the league that you should automatically be a top 2 or 3 candidate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jan 22 2007, 01:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But Kobe is also carrying his team without their 2nd option, playing much better D than Dirk, been amazing as Dirk in the clutch, and also averaging over 5APG. GA is having an amazing year statistically, carrying his team, a few 50pt games, a 60pt game, many game winning shots, and his team is 2nd I believe in the East. I don't know what you call godly, but 25/13/4/3 on 51% shooting is about as good as it gets statisitically. Not to mention TD was also one of the best defensive PF's/C's in the league at the time.I'm not holding it against you guys, I understand why you'd pick Dirk as MVP, I just feel that their are 3 players more deserving right now. I am not one of those people that believe that just because you are the best player on the best team in the league that you should automatically be a top 2 or 3 candidate.</div>There are actually 4 deserving candidates, not just 3, and Dirk should be an automatic top 3, or at worst 4.I've seen you post on and on about how Dirk, and the Mavs, are lacking, and you really don't have a good reason, except saying Dirk relies on a second option(Nash has 2 in Amare and Marion), and saying Dirk doesn't play defense, which means you haven't watched any games.No Dirk isn't TD or Big Ben, but he's improved drastically over the last 2 years, but is still getting labeled as a non defender, wich is bull.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (funk99 @ Jan 22 2007, 01:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Gilbert right now is my standout favourite to win MVP. 30 ppg, 6 apg, 2 spg. he can do it all</div>LeBron is putting up better all-around stats, but that doesn't make him the MVP. People need to stop paying so much attention to stats, because the player with the best stats does not necessarily deserve the MVP award.Gilbert is top 5 in my MVP list, but definitely not top 3, let alone a clear-cut favorite.
Gilbert is playing amazing...he's in my running for MVP. But, overall, I think Steve Nash will probably get it again, just of the fact that he's able to use his teammates while being consistent in the scoring department.1. Nash2. Arenas3. Kobe4. James5. Iverson
If the season ended right now, I would probably give it to Gilbert Arenas. The Wizards are #1 in the East. He is 2nd in the League in scoring right now, he has made a ton of clutch shots. And who predicted the Wizards to be this good? Steve Nash, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, and Tim Duncan are the other serious candidates that I can think of.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Jan 22 2007, 02:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There are actually 4 deserving candidates, not just 3, and Dirk should be an automatic top 3, or at worst 4.I've seen you post on and on about how Dirk, and the Mavs, are lacking, and you really don't have a good reason, except saying Dirk relies on a second option(Nash has 2 in Amare and Marion), and saying Dirk doesn't play defense, which means you haven't watched any games.No Dirk isn't TD or Big Ben, but he's improved drastically over the last 2 years, but is still getting labeled as a non defender, wich is bull.</div>I said there are 3 players that are more deserving than Dirk, NOT that there are only 3 deserving candidates.I have NEVER said that Dirk is lacking because of his defense or relying on a 2nd option. I said that Kobe has been one of the top defenders in the league which is a big plus for him in MVP voting, I never knocked Dirk for playing bad D. And I said that Dirk's teammates have really, really stepped it up this year. Thus his stats are down, he isn't having a better statistical season than the other candidates, and I feel Kobe and GA's teams would collapse without them. Right now Kobe's team is over 10 games over .500, and GA's team is #1 in the East. Sure, mavs would drop off quite a few games, but would still probably be a 7th or 8th seed in the West. The Wizards would be below .500 and Lakers would be below .500 without their respective superstars. Nash's team wouldn't drop off as much as Lakers or Wizards, but they wouldn't be nearly as effective. He is a bit more important to his team than Dirk is, if not only for the fact that he is the PG ontop of being the leader, best clutch player and first scoring option.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jan 22 2007, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If the season ended right now, I would probably give it to Gilbert Arenas. The Wizards are #1 in the East. He is 2nd in the League in scoring right now, he has made a ton of clutch shots. And who predicted the Wizards to be this good? Steve Nash, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, and Tim Duncan are the other serious candidates that I can think of.</div> The Cavaliers are just as good a team as Washington, I could care less if the Wizards are number one in the eastern conference, it means nothing considering how bad it is. Kobe and Arenas are both dominant on offense but Kobe is clearly the better defender. So I give him the edge.
Wow Kobe is really getting overrated when it comes to his defense and he isn't as explosive as Wade when it comes to speed. I really don't see Kobe so great as some of you do. Maybe he just had off nights against Dallas or he is having an off year. The lakers team as a whole have improved a lot. Much deeper bench than before. Luke Walton's passing has been superb. Farmar is become a good player. Turiaf is good in the post. Bynum is really a tough to guard because of his length and speed. The fact is the lakers have played great ball without Kobe playing superb.
Kobe is putting up 28/5/5on over 47% shooting. He has had 3 games over 50pts, and some fantastic games in the clutch (specifically last week vs the Heat where he made Wade ineffective in any are outside of fastbreaks in 2nd half, all the while hitting shot after shot on offense).
Mavsfan is telling the truth, Kobe's defense this season has been consistently inconsistent. But most of of it aint his fault. The main reason is because his health has not been good. Before kobe had the ankle and groin injury, he was playing lockdown defense. Then after that, it disappeared (couple of games he showed when he tries he is one of the best defenders in the league). You cant really blame him on this.Sometimes, he doesn't put effort it in. Example last game where Rasual buter owned him on the defensive end.Kobe When healthy is the one of the premier defenders in the league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Jan 23 2007, 08:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow Kobe is really getting overrated when it comes to his defense and he isn't as explosive as Wade when it comes to speed. I really don't see Kobe so great as some of you do. Maybe he just had off nights against Dallas or he is having an off year. The lakers team as a whole have improved a lot. Much deeper bench than before. Luke Walton's passing has been superb. Farmar is become a good player. Turiaf is good in the post. Bynum is really a tough to guard because of his length and speed. The fact is the lakers have played great ball without Kobe playing superb.</div>Again man, if you're going to try and lie against kobe/lakers then atleast make it something that isn't obviously stupid.1- Luke walton's passing Has always been superb. It isn't like his passing all of a sudden became better2- Bynum has speed? Bynum is one of the slowest players I've ever seen. He is a robot with robot movements. Mechanical.The Only reason why the lakers are where they are now is because of kobe and phil. Why? The only reason why the triangle offense functions is because of kobe. The whole offense stagnates when kobe goes out. He is the only person who can run the offense to perfection. Without him, the team would be dead with odom being out.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jan 22 2007, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Cavaliers are just as good a team as Washington, I could care less if the Wizards are number one in the eastern conference, it means nothing considering how bad it is. Kobe and Arenas are both dominant on offense but Kobe is clearly the better defender. So I give him the edge.</div>Oh come on, man. You know that you never expected the Wizards to do this well. I know Gilbert is an attrocious defender, but Steve Nash won the MVP award 2 years straight, and he is just as bad, if not worse on defense. Gilbert has done a ton for that Wizards offense. He's gotten what, 3 game winning threes too? He's just been huge for their offense, and their team as a whole.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jan 21 2007, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ah, forgot about Pistons. But Duncan still was leader of the team, still put up 19/11/3/2 on 48% shooting, etc... Let's take Pistons, then. Would you have put Billuips over Nash, James or Kobe?</div>No, I wouldnt have had Billups over any of those players, but Billups WAS considered a top 5 MVP candidate in alot of peoples minds.....You cant argue that. He wasnt even close to a top 5 best player in the league, and he wasnt a top 5 most valuable player either. But he was top 5. Dirk impacts his team more than Billups does IMO and Billups was top 5 in alot of polls, and top 3 in some.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jan 22 2007, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, I wouldnt have had Billups over any of those players, but Billups WAS considered a top 5 MVP candidate in alot of peoples minds.....You cant argue that. He wasnt even close to a top 5 best player in the league, and he wasnt a top 5 most valuable player either. But he was top 5. Dirk impacts his team more than Billups does IMO and Billups was top 5 in alot of polls, and top 3 in some.</div>Billuips, being the PG on that more offensive minded Pistons team and having such a season he had I feel was just as big of an impact as Dirk is to the Mavs.But again, Dirk should definately be mentioned by I personally don't have him over Arenas, Kobe or Nash.
