How does Steve Nash compare to players like Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Jason Kidd, and others?Obviously his defense is not as high as the others. I think that he's just as good at making his teammates better as John Stockton was, and his 2 MVP's show for it. But, I don't think that he's even on the four listed level. But he will be a Hall of Famer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Jan 17 2007, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How does Steve Nash compare to players like Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Jason Kidd, and others?Obviously his defense is not as high as the others. I think that he's just as good at making his teammates better as John Stockton was, and his 2 MVP's show for it. But, I don't think that he's even on the four listed level. But he will be a Hall of Famer.</div>he's a player who is a normal all star on most teams, but a hall of famer MVP in the suns' specified system. He's as creative a passer, as good a shooter, and as good a ball handler as anybody to ever play the game but doesn't play defense.
its pretty much irrelivent whether he would be worse in a different system even though I agree with you. But nash is among the best. He is one of the best passers the game has ever seen, if not the best.
I saw on "First and 10" about a week ago, and somebody on that show said that Steve Nash was better than Magic Johnson. I was getting so mad that its not even funny. His reasoning for Steve Nash being better was that nobody has been as consistent of a passer as Nash has been over the past 4 or so seasons. What made me so mad was that Magic averaged over 12 assists 6 times. That is freaking unbelievable. Before Nash came to Phoenix, he had not averaged over 8 assists one time....To put it quite frankly, Nash doesn't belong in the same sentence as Magic or Stockton, he MIGHT be in the same paragraph as Isiah, and he is close to Kidd. Kidd is just a better rebounder for a guard, almost as good as a passer in his prime, and a FAR better defender. Kidd is a simply amazing defender, AND he led his team to 2 finals and lost to 2 very worthy opponents.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I saw on "First and 10" about a week ago, and somebody on that show said that Steve Nash was better than Magic Johnson. I was getting so mad that its not even funny. His reasoning for Steve Nash being better was that nobody has been as consistent of a passer as Nash has been over the past 4 or so seasons</div>That person is an idiot. when you talk about consistant passers there is really only three guys you mention; John Stockton, Bob Cousy, and Magic Johnson. Steve Nash is basically Kevin Porter with more offense. if the talent level in this league wasn't so one sided with all the best players being 2s and 3s, Steve Nash would get exposed for what he really is-overrated. Take a look at Nash's career when he had to face other good point guards. he was always a second tier guy. not to mention the top PGs from 98-03 consistantly had big games against him, which means he is a piss poor defender. The other great point guards have all been quality defenders, Steve Nash is no where near that level.
If your looking for sports insight, dont watch 1st and 10 skip bayless and woody page should both be fired. Today on the show skip said that lebron is not a top 10 player to build your team around for the future. I think the show is hilarious though just because they think they know sports. Its even worse when you think that they are given a day in advance the topics they are going to talk about so its pathetic that they could be THAT stupid.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jan 18 2007, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I saw on "First and 10" about a week ago, and somebody on that show said that Steve Nash was better than Magic Johnson. I was getting so mad that its not even funny. His reasoning for Steve Nash being better was that nobody has been as consistent of a passer as Nash has been over the past 4 or so seasons. What made me so mad was that Magic averaged over 12 assists 6 times. That is freaking unbelievable. Before Nash came to Phoenix, he had not averaged over 8 assists one time....</div> I agree that Steve Nash is not the all-around player that Magic Johnson was, he couldn't play defense as well as Magic, can't rebound and can't play the different positions that Magic could. There is no way you could put Nash into the starting lineup at the center spot like the Lakers did with Magic in a finals game. However, as an offensive point guard, I think he is in the same league as Magic. What Nash lacks in being able to post up like Magic, he makes up for in being able to shoot the three that Magic could not shoot. I think he was as good of a passer as Magic Johnson was. Sure he didn't average that many assists per game 6 times, but he didn't play in an offense that averaged over 105 points per game until he left the Mavericks. That is opposed to Magic who enjoyed a fast paced, score alot offense that boosted his assist stats. Just look at the fact, that only once twice in his career was he on a team that averaged less than 110 points per game. He was in an offense where the point guard would have alot of assists. The year before Magic got there Norm Nixon averaged 9 assists per game, and that was in only his second season in the NBA. So that offense was made for the point guard to rack up assists. As far as pure passing and court vision, Steve Nash can hit every point on the floor with quick, crisp passes. He can pace a fast break like Magic could, and knew where people was at all times. I really think he is as good of a passer as anyone else in history from what I have seen. That's why I say from an offensive stand point, he is as good as anyone else that has played the point guard position in my opinion. It's when it comes to an all around, including defense and everything that I place Stockton, Kidd, Magic, and Cousy over Steve Nash.
You are stating that it was the offense that Magic played in that made Magic such a good passer, but look at Steve Nash....In Dallas, he still had the offensive weapons on his team to rack up assists. He had Dirk Nowitzki who at the time was a very good player. He also had players like Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel who were both pretty much in their primes at the time. Its not like Nash didnt have the opportunity to average more than 7 assists per game. I will admit, Steve Nash is a hell of a passer, but the thing that made me angry about Skip on first and ten is that he stated "nobody has been as consistent as Nash has", which is simply not true. You and I both know that....Magic played with great teammattes in LA, but Nash has also played with an incredible supporting cast in Phoenix as well. Both have had amazing supporting casts, so I really dont think that you can take that away from Magic.Also, there is one thing that Magic has over Nash. Rings.....Nash has had the teammattes in his career to get him a ring. In Dallas, he had a good playoff caliber team that couldnt get over the hump of LA or San Antonio. And now that he has been on Phoenix, he has definitely had the talent to get to the championship, but now Dallas and San Antonio is standing in his way. San Antonio 2 seasons ago absolutley wiped the floor with Phoenix. That is a series where Stoudemire put up 37 PPG. If you cant lead your team to the finals when you have Amare producing like that, AND when you have players like Richardson, Joe Johnson, AND Shawn Marion, that is kinda ridiculous.Now, Nash might have been in the same ballpark as Magic as a passer, but he is not as a player like you stated above.
[quote name='ballerman2112' post='265061' date='Jan 18 2007, 02:03 PM']You are stating that it was the offense that Magic played in that made Magic such a good passer, but look at Steve Nash....In Dallas, he still had the offensive weapons on his team to rack up assists. He had Dirk Nowitzki who at the time was a very good player. He also had players like Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel who were both pretty much in their primes at the time. Its not like Nash didnt have the opportunity to average more than 7 assists per game.[/quote] While it is true that he had good teamates in Dallas, he did not have as great of a cast around him, or as wide open of a style as what Magic had around him. Magic played at a time where other teams got out ran, and there was much higher of a pace to the game. Nash played at a time where the other teams tried to play slower which took away from him being able to run as much as what Magic was able to. Nash also did not have a dominant low post presence like Kareem to keep balance around the court. Nash's team was a perimeter oriented team that had more people that could get the ball at the top and create their own shot. Sure Kareem could pull some moves in the post, but he wasn't like Dirk where he could come around screens and shoot from the outside. As I said, Nash never played a team that averaged over 105 points per game until he played for the Suns. Magic never once in his career played on a team that averaged that low, and only twice in his career played on a team that averaged less than 110 points per game. Playing on a team that scores more is going to make your assists numbers go up. While it is true that Nash had good teamates around him, once Nash got put into a wide open running offense like Magic enjoyed his entire career, Nash's assist numbers sky rocketed up to be alot like Magic's type of assists numbers. Another thing that is going to affect Nash's assists numbers compared to Magic's, is that he played in an era where his teams took alot of three point shots compared to Magic's teams that rarely shot threes. So his teams tried for alot more high percentage shots than Nash's teams tried for because of offensive game plans for each team. Put Magic on a team that shot more three's, there are going to be more shots missed and it would effect his passing numbers quite a bit. That playoffs, Joe Johnson sat out two games of that San Antonio series, and was hurting for most of that San Antonio series after that eye injury he received. Richardson was good most of the season, but he did not play that well in the playoffs. He missed alot of open shots provided for him by Steve Nash. The only one two that produced that series was Stoudemire and Nash, Nash had two games where he put up 29 points and 13 assists, a 17 point-12 assist game, and a 21 point-10 assist game. Nash more than held up his end of the deal, it was the rest of the team being injured or not producing that hurt the team. It's hard to win if your team is playing like that during a playoff series. Pretty much we are both agreeing on the same thing there. I think as far as a passer he is in Magic's league. However as a basketball player, obviously Magic in my eyes is better than Nash.
Nash is good. He'd be an above average PG anyway. But he is surrounded by one talented-ass team. And Passing and shooting seem to be the only things he does really well. Unlike Magic and the other greats being compared.
Nash is a phenomenal point guard... He orchestrates this team, without him running the show, I question whether they'd be quite as good... I mean I'm not discrediting the rest of the Phoenix Suns team at all.... I just think Nash is a phenomenal leader, a great f*cking shooter and the BEST passer I've ever seen... That includes Magic, Stockton, Isiah and others. He's a two time back-to-back MVP for christ's sake! I mean come on!
Nash is going to be an All-Time great pointguard. As for comparing to him with others, id say he reminds me of a young John Stockton. Both these guys were able to find open players and get them the ball while also being able to score. Nash is great at running the tempo of a game and its always fun to watch him do what he does every night.
At the age of 30+ Nash is still getting better each year. I haven't seen Magic Johnson play before but its already something that Nash can't compete with since Magic could play all 5 positions. His shot is smooth and is consistent. He also has crazy crossovers and plenty of amazing passes that defenders don't expect. But also he is probably only player better is because the style of play was different than he was in Dallas? Since he is more of a fast break type player.
nash is a great player made even better being in phoenix. will definitely be remembered 20 years from now but you cant say dat he's in the league with magic and em yet.
