This did go way off the original topic and your point was much bigger than a wedding cake. I think we pretty much agreed agree the bill is BS, and you even said you knew it wasn't going to pass, so we didn't take it much further. None of us intended to minimize it Crandc and I apologize if anything I wrote made you feel that way. It just spun off into an interesting philosophical discussion with no offense intend. It just got me to thinking about where you would philosophically draw the line regarding the right to religious expression. I work with a risk manager who is a devout Mormon and was assigned to work with a casino. She refused to work with them because of her religious beliefs. My company was easily able to accommodate that but should they? I was surprised when they did it because she had agreed to do a certain job without that contingency when she was hired and could extend that argument to bars, liquor stores, strip clubs, etc. If you start making that exception to a Mormon why wouldn't you then have to extend that to other religions. On the other hand, what if they turned around at a later date and, for no reason, assigned every casino, bar, liquor store, and strip club to her... would they at that point be vulnerable to a lawsuit for harassment due to her religious beliefs? Is the Catholic church going to have to purchase insurance coverage including birth control even though they strictly forbid using it? If I remember right Hobby Lobby lost the "I'm Catholic" argument and was told to include birth control in their health plan because it discriminated against women. While the feminist in me rejoiced the objective part of me thought... hmmmm, I do see a grey area there. Would a Satanist legally have the right to demand a mosque open it's doors for a ceremony?
Finally something we can all agree on... I think... is there a religions based around worshipping cake? What about sugar free cake?
In Hobby Lobby, the Court ruled that closely held for-profit corporations do not have to provide abortion coverage if it violates the owners' religious principles.
Yes, we agree. Thanks to legal protections, there is no massive discrimination there. No there there.
@crandc you seem to lump every person who self identifies as chritian into 1 kind of person. I hope some day you can be less prejudice and see there are many perfectly fine christians out there.
Do you know if there is any kind of legal protection for a religious location? I know lots of churches refuse to allow people to get married in their facilities if the couple is living together outside of marriage or because the couple doesn't attend the church. What legally allows them to refuse service?
1st amendment. The government making rules for how religious institutions or religion works is, in effect, establishing a religion, no? Establishing "catholicism with X rule" or "catholicism without Y practice." I don't understand the reasoning for tax exempt status. It's not a violation of church and state to tax an organization's income. As long as there's no extra high tax on one religion vs, another vs. businesses. They are businesses in the incorporation sense, even if 501(c)3. They certainly can deny to marry a gay couple, though some churches will. I don't see why it should matter if your union is blessed. It only need be blessed by the justice of the peace so you can get all the benefits of marriage.
But most churches don't sell goods or services so they don't technically earn income. They're supposedly not set up or intended to make a "profit".
They pass the plate. They offer salvation in exchange for a tythe. They own massive tracts of land in expensive areas and the buildings can be hugely ornate and expensive to build. The Vatican has $billions in assets in its bank. Maybe as many as $15B. Sounds like profit to me.
Ah but they don't offer salvation for tithe... they offer a place to meet, educate yourself, and practice a religious faith and they charge nothing for it. Tithing is voluntary.
when i was engaged the pastor basically told us what he expected us to do or he wouldnt marry us. my solution was fuck him we can go some where else, but she was enamored by him, and as far as I know 9 years later, she still does everything he tells her. fucking creepy.
sort of fact, while tithing is supposed to be voluntary many churches damn near require it. mormons especially. some catholics and baptists are up there too as far as really pushing for the shit. i was demonized by my old pastor for showing him in the bible that the tithe was not necessary. he had been preaching for over a year about how we as a congregation needed to tithe first and trust god to pay our bills. when i told him maybe he is the one that should trust god to fill his building project funds i was demonized by him here it is 9 years later and my poor mother and uncle are still praying i will "come back to him like the prodigal son." fucking cult leaders make me sick.
