Doc Rivers still gives the team a good grade even when they lose 9 in a row!http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_20541.shtml
I give them an A for effort too. Forget the standings, bostonballer. If you watch the games, you see that these kids play their heart out every night. They always bring the fight. I agree with Doc 100% about giving them an A for effort, without question.
I agree the Celtics are trying but they don't play two halves of basketball.Blowing an 18-point lead to the Atlanta Hawks doesn't seem like they were giving it 100%. Interesting quote in this article about Doc Rivers' perception of effort vs. just plain old getting frustrated.Do you think blowing an 18 point lead really warrants an "A"??
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bostonballin @ Jan 26 2007, 01:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree the Celtics are trying but they don't play two halves of basketball. Blowing an 18-point lead to the Atlanta Hawks doesn't seem like they were giving it 100%. Interesting quote in this article about Doc Rivers' perception of effort vs. just plain old getting frustrated. Do you think blowing an 18 point lead really warrants an "A"??</div> You are pointing out one half of basketball, in a game where we DID lose Big Al for the remainder of the game, rather than recognizing the effort as a whole for the entire time we've been largely plagued with these injuries. If you are going to nitpick that one game, you might as well recognize the big comeback vs. SAN ANTONIO, the overtime effort on the road in Washington, and the fact that we have been in literally EVERY SINGLE game.
For effort, how could they not get an A? Face it, without Pierce, Wally, Allen, etc. this team is terrible. Yet they've managed to be in almost every game, and haven't really been blown out at all, and they've only had 1-2 double digit losses. These kids go out there and fight their asses off every night, and I love to see that.
Doc's coaching recently hasn't been as bad as it was at one point in the season. He finally found the watermelons to bench Telfair, and he's been playing Rondo much more. Glad he finally had the balls to do that. The only complaint I have of him recently has been playing guys while they've been banged up a bit (Delonte, possibly Al tonight, Wally). I don't know how you can expect this team to win. They're not very good at all. Don't blame these losses on anyone except the players and injuries. Doc has been doing a pretty good job, and its just the inexperience and the lack of talent on this team right now with all of the injuries. Them bringing their A effort every night is what helps keep them in these games. I'm telling you, if we can bring in one impact guy this summer to go along with Pierce and Jefferson, with Green as a sixth man, and Perkins and Gomes coming off the bench, this team can be very very good if healthy.
When a team constantly loses close games, coaching is one of the biggest problems. That's not even mentioning that they've failed to improve at all since he was hired.You listed a nice rotation there, but Doc doesn't play rotations. All 12 guys play sporadically every game.
Even when what you said was just 100% true, about Doc not being a good coach, and coaching being a problem, I still think you can't blame Doc for this losing streak. The inexperience is what kills us down the stretch, when you don't have guys like Pierce and Wally to stabilize your offense down the stretch this is what you get. I am still very proud being a Celtics fan. Despite all of the injuries I take pride in the fact that my team is still fighting hard being without two of their top 3 players (1. Pierce, 3. Wally (Yes I say Al has eclipsed Wally)).
I love the C's, I feel bad that all of these injuries have happened to them this year, especially to my boy Pierce. I think they're doing the best they can, and that's all anybody could ask of them, they're SO young and inexperienced, but they're working and doing what they can!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jan 26 2007, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If the players are getting an A than it must be Doc's horrible coaching that's lost 9 in a row.</div> No, it's the youth, inexperience, defensive lapses, and inconsistency that has lost us 9 straight. Just because the players make mistakes doesn't mean the effort level isn't there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jan 26 2007, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, it's the youth, inexperience, defensive lapses, and inconsistency that has lost us 9 straight. Just because the players make mistakes doesn't mean the effort level isn't there.</div>And whose job is it to fix those problems? There is a huge difference between losing a few games due to inexperience and constantly collapsing down the stretch. The Celts have been losing close games regularly for Doc Rivers' entire tenure. The same problems keep coming up and he has been unable to do anything about it. He's been hiding behind the youth factor for too long. Eventually there has to be some improvement, and I'm not seeing it. I never said there was a lack of effort, just that Doc isn't the right guy for the job. He's had plenty of chances and he's blown all of them. Unless the Celts go on a run before the year is over Doc needs to go.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jan 26 2007, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And whose job is it to fix those problems? There is a huge difference between losing a few games due to inexperience and constantly collapsing down the stretch. The Celts have been losing close games regularly for Doc Rivers' entire tenure. The same problems keep coming up and he has been unable to do anything about it. He's been hiding behind the youth factor for too long. Eventually there has to be some improvement, and I'm not seeing it. I never said there was a lack of effort, just that Doc isn't the right guy for the job. He's had plenty of chances and he's blown all of them. Unless the Celts go on a run before the year is over Doc needs to go.</div> You can't just "fix" the problem. Are you suggesting that Doc puts Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Rajon Rondo, and Kendrick Perkins in a machine where they come out 3 years older? You are making it sound like Doc can do anything about us turning the ball over and being inexperienced. Maybe Doc can magically zap Pierce, Wally, TA, and Theo with his magic wand and they can all become healthy by 7:00 pm tonight. Maybe that could fix it. Give me a break. We are starting 4 kids out of high school, one who is injured, and a second year player who is playing out of position. Our 2nd unit now is our 3rd unit when healthy. The only thing that will "fix" this is time. I agree that Doc's tenure in Boston should obviously end at the end of this season, but as of right now, Red Auerbach himself couldn't win all that many games with this lineup. Also, if you haven't seen any improvement in these young players this year, you need to watch games more often.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jan 26 2007, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You can't just "fix" the problem. Are you suggesting that Doc puts Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Rajon Rondo, and Kendrick Perkins in a machine where they come out 3 years older? You are making it sound like Doc can do anything about us turning the ball over and being inexperienced. Maybe Doc can magically zap Pierce, Wally, TA, and Theo with his magic wand and they can all become healthy by 7:00 pm tonight. Maybe that could fix it. Give me a break. We are starting 4 kids out of high school, one who is injured, and a second year player who is playing out of position. Our 2nd unit now is our 3rd unit when healthy. The only thing that will "fix" this is time. I agree that Doc's tenure in Boston should obviously end at the end of this season, but as of right now, Red Auerbach himself couldn't win all that many games with this lineup.Also, if you haven't seen any improvement in these young players this year, you need to watch games more often.</div>I've seen improvement from players definitely, but much of that has come because they're finally getting consistent minutes as opposed to the sporadic time they were given last season. What I haven't seen is this group of guys playing better as a team. They still blow big leads and collapse at the end of games. They did that when they had Pierce, Wally, and Allen as well. I understand that'll happen to all teams at times, but I can't remember seeing the Celts win a close hard fought game against one good team this season. It took Doc how long to bench Telfair despite his bad shooting and defensive lapses? Everyone saw Rondo and West were outplaying him but it took Doc half the season to make a move. I'm not saying the Celts should be a playoff team this year, but during these 9 straight losses they should've at least pulled out a few wins. They had the chance to win every game, and they blew each one. When it happens that consistently you can't solely blame the players' inexperience. These guys have all been in the NBA for over a season (except Rondo). They're not rookies.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jan 26 2007, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've seen improvement from players definitely, but much of that has come because they're finally getting consistent minutes as opposed to the sporadic time they were given last season. What I haven't seen is this group of guys playing better as a team. They still blow big leads and collapse at the end of games. They did that when they had Pierce, Wally, and Allen as well. I understand that'll happen to all teams at times, but I can't remember seeing the Celts win a close hard fought game against one good team this season. It took Doc how long to bench Telfair despite his bad shooting and defensive lapses? Everyone saw Rondo and West were outplaying him but it took Doc half the season to make a move. I'm not saying the Celts should be a playoff team this year, but during these 9 straight losses they should've at least pulled out a few wins. They had the chance to win every game, and they blew each one. When it happens that consistently you can't solely blame the players' inexperience. These guys have all been in the NBA for over a season (except Rondo). They're not rookies.</div> Yes, they are like rookies. You have Rondo who is a rookie, Ray (who has been getting minutes lately) as well. Gerald basically counts as a rookie because he is out of high school, still very raw, and he only played in around 30 games last year (and he didn't even get real minutes in about 15 of them). Al Jefferson had a lost season last year. Perk is playing through plantar fasciitis. Delonte is just now coming into his own. Gomes is a second year player. Just because they don't all have the rookie label, they are still incredibly young and inexperienced, and they are all trying to get their careers going. Of course they aren't going to develop a bond or chemistry this season. Of course they are going to make a lot of mistakes. Of course they will all be streaky and blow leads. Of course most of them will be a liability on defense (excluding a couple). I mean they are all young, inexperienced, and banged up. They don't know who's going to suit up from day-to-day now. They are just thrown out there in different rotations and they have to just deal with it and play their hardest. OK, should we have won a couple of these last 9 games? Sure. But it's pretty promising that a core of Delonte West, Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo, and Allan Ray are even keeping this team IN these games.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jan 26 2007, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, they are like rookies. You have Rondo who is a rookie, Ray (who has been getting minutes lately) as well. Gerald basically counts as a rookie because he is out of high school, still very raw, and he only played in around 30 games last year (and he didn't even get real minutes in about 15 of them). Al Jefferson had a lost season last year. Perk is playing through plantar fasciitis. Delonte is just now coming into his own. Gomes is a second year player.Just because they don't all have the rookie label, they are still incredibly young and inexperienced, and they are all trying to get their careers going. Of course they aren't going to develop a bond or chemistry this season. Of course they are going to make a lot of mistakes. Of course they will all be streaky and blow leads. Of course most of them will be a liability on defense (excluding a couple). I mean they are all young, inexperienced, and banged up. They don't know who's going to suit up from day-to-day now. They are just thrown out there in different rotations and they have to just deal with it and play their hardest.OK, should we have won a couple of these last 9 games? Sure. But it's pretty promising that a core of Delonte West, Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo, and Allan Ray are even keeping this team IN these games.</div>They are young and are going to make mistakes, but they keep making the same ones repeatedly.I'll give you Green being in his first real season, as well as Rondo and Allan being in theirs, but not the other guys. This is Al's third year in the league, and he played over 50 games last season. If that's a lost year than I guess there wasn't even a season in 99. He's been around long enough to not make rookie mistakes. Of course he's not going to play like an all-star and needs time to reach his potential, but he's not like a rookie. The same is true of Kendrick Perkins. Delonte West started 70 games last year and played 3 years of college ball. He's fairly developed already although he does keep improving. Gomes was a star at Providence and had plenty of playing time last year. Again, I realize these guys are young and need time, but they should be better than blowing a 20 point lead to the Hawks. Part of the reason they have no chemistry and struggle on defense is because of Doc's inability to get them consistent playing time earlier this year and in previous seasons. That alone has hindered the growth of the team. Now that they're all forced to play because of injuries we see a lot of development because they're able to play consistently. Anyway, we both agree Doc isn't the right guy to lead this team, so I'm not even sure what the argument is about anymore. I see a lot of potential in these guys, but have no confidence in Rivers' ability to develop it...or teach them how to play defense.
From the article http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_20561.shtmlIt's about Doc and Rondo ... Doc wasn't happy with Rondo after the game against San Antonio:"We walked the ball up the floor," said Rivers. "I really got on Rajon because he's the fastest guy in the gym ? If you walk the ball up the floor and start your offense with 10 or 12 seconds ? the likelihood of you getting your shot is not very good. And that's something we had talked about and he just kept walking it up the floor."When a player, regardless of his age, is walking the ball up the court, that does not sound like he is giving it his all. Just think, the Celtics ALMOST one that game. Maybe a few more hustled trips up the court would have been the difference between a close loss and a confidence-boosting victory.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jan 26 2007, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They are young and are going to make mistakes, but they keep making the same ones repeatedly. I'll give you Green being in his first real season, as well as Rondo and Allan being in theirs, but not the other guys. This is Al's third year in the league, and he played over 50 games last season. If that's a lost year than I guess there wasn't even a season in 99. He's been around long enough to not make rookie mistakes. Of course he's not going to play like an all-star and needs time to reach his potential, but he's not like a rookie. The same is true of Kendrick Perkins. Delonte West started 70 games last year and played 3 years of college ball. He's fairly developed already although he does keep improving. Gomes was a star at Providence and had plenty of playing time last year. Again, I realize these guys are young and need time, but they should be better than blowing a 20 point lead to the Hawks. Part of the reason they have no chemistry and struggle on defense is because of Doc's inability to get them consistent playing time earlier this year and in previous seasons. That alone has hindered the growth of the team. Now that they're all forced to play because of injuries we see a lot of development because they're able to play consistently. Anyway, we both agree Doc isn't the right guy to lead this team, so I'm not even sure what the argument is about anymore. I see a lot of potential in these guys, but have no confidence in Rivers' ability to develop it...or teach them how to play defense.</div> 1. There were only 50 games in the 98-99 season because of the lockout. 2. YES, last year was a lost year for Big Al because he missed so much time with his ankle injuries, from training camp to the end of the year. He didn't even get a chance to show what he had because as soon as he put together a string of 5 or 6 solid games, he screwed up his other ankle. 3. I didn't mention Delonte as a newbie, but he did just come back into his own. 4. Perk, again, is battling plantar fasciitis, and it is OBVIOUSLY hindering his game and movement, which is why he's playing limited minutes. 5. Gomes had "plenty of time last year?" Really? Doc didn't even utilize him until the second half of the year (again, because of Big Al and Perk being out). Sure, he played well in that time and he has played well this year for the most part. He carries himself like a veteran, which is why I didn't mention him before in the list of "kids." 6. Doc's inability to get them consistent playing time early in the year? What do you suggest? We drop Pierce's minutes to 30 a game, Delonte's to 20, and split with the bigs? There is not enough playing time for all of these young players... until now, with all the injuries. The only guy that should have gotten more minutes in the beginning of the year was Gerald (and Rondo in December), but that theory was shot dead once Tony Allen was reincarnated. Don't even worry about it. Just be happy that these guys are fighting through all the animosity this year and still competing hard night in and night out. That alone should give you some hope, considering the fact that some of our best players aren't even playing in these games that we are always in to the end. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bostonballin @ Jan 26 2007, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>From the article http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_20561.shtml It's about Doc and Rondo ... Doc wasn't happy with Rondo after the game against San Antonio: "We walked the ball up the floor," said Rivers. "I really got on Rajon because he's the fastest guy in the gym ? If you walk the ball up the floor and start your offense with 10 or 12 seconds ? the likelihood of you getting your shot is not very good. And that's something we had talked about and he just kept walking it up the floor." When a player, regardless of his age, is walking the ball up the court, that does not sound like he is giving it his all. Just think, the Celtics ALMOST one that game. Maybe a few more hustled trips up the court would have been the difference between a close loss and a confidence-boosting victory.</div> :HAHAHA: You didn't watch that Celtics/Spurs game now, did you? It sounds like what you said at the end of this post was based on that one quote from Doc, and that's it. If you watched that game, YOU KNOW that Rajon Rondo actually LED THE WAY in that big run at the end of the game. He walked the ball up the court twice, because he was trying to slow it down. That was nothing more than a little rookie mistake, because Rondo pushes the ball like no other 95% of the time.
Actually I did watch the game and because I did, I know how crucial one or two posessions were. The Celtics lost 89-93. That's two posessions.That's two posessions that Rondo walked the ball up the court. If Rondo RAN the ball up the court and didn't set things up with 10 or 12 seconds left on the clock like Doc mentioned, that could've given the Celtics time for the two posessions they needed to tie the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bostonballin @ Jan 26 2007, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually I did watch the game and because I did, I know how crucial one or two posessions were. The Celtics lost 89-93. That's two posessions. That's two posessions that Rondo walked the ball up the court. If Rondo RAN the ball up the court and didn't set things up with 10 or 12 seconds left on the clock like Doc mentioned, that could've given the Celtics time for the two posessions they needed to tie the game.</div> Coulda, shoulda, woulda. If you are going to say that, then you could also make the argument that Rondo could have rushed things and it would have resulted in a turnover.
