<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jan 28 2007, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to discredit Nash's shooting ability or passing ability (he is the best playmaker in the league). But his stats are a bit overblown due to being in Phoenix. He would not be a 53% shooter in any other system. He wouldn't be able to drive into an empty lane like he does now, nor would he get so many open 3's. He makes that system truly work, but the system also gives him many benefits and bloats his stats.I never called Duncan a better scorer, that definately goes to Dirk. Duncan can still put up those numbers. He is having a career year in FG % by nearly 3%, I am sure if he took as many shots as he did then (17FGA's per game to around 14 now), and if he played as many minutes as then (went down from 40MPG to around 35MPG now), he would be at his 23-25PPG and 12-13RPG averages. He showe dlast year in playoffs and in many games this year that he still has the capabilities he did a few years back. I just cannot put Dirk above Duncan, the only thing he really has over him IMO is scoring and maybe clutch ability. But rebounding, passing, defense...all goes to Duncan. And say waht you want about his rings being in the past, but IMO they have shaped what he is today and knows what it takes to win rings, and that gives him another edge over Dirk that stats never show.Well, if Bowen was able to keep up with T-Mac maybe they would have won, but T-Mac killed you guys. Duncan played a helluva game. Against the Mavs he deserves some flak, but again...32/12/4/3 on 56% shooting is absolutely incredible and you can't expect much more from your PF. He does his job. Averaging 21/14/4 against Cleveland, 26/14/6 against Phoenix, came up HUGE against Houston and LA this past week, etc... The only team he has played badly against is Dallas, but he was incredible against them last season. He does his job, it's rare you can truly blame him for a loss.</div>I dont think that Nash would get as many assists in another system as he would in the Phoenix system, but I think he would at least get 9 anywhere else. And I hoenstly dont think his points would go down either. He would get more attempts, and even if he shot 3 percent less from the field, and he shot the ball more, he would score more points. Its not like Nash gets left when his man goes to double another player. Nash is just an incredible shooter when he is guarded and even more when he is open. His assists might go down some, but I think his points would either stay the same or possibly go higher.I know you didnt call Duncan a better scorer, but I was just showing you that Dirk can score in so many damn differnet ways that its crazy. And why dont you go look at how many MPG Dirk plays. It isn't much more than 35. I think he plays around 36 minutes a game....If you look at Dirk's stats last year and the year before, he did better because he had more minutes to play with. Duncan can't play 40 minutes anymore. He isnt in good enough shape to do it...With the Spurs losing alot of big games so far this season, Duncan would be playing more if he could. Duncan has never been a guy to get 25 PPG in a season. I dont know this by fact, but Duncan in his prime never scored over 25 a game (Thats a guess).You keep on bringing up Duncan's passing ability like it is so much better...when it really isnt what so ever. Duncan averages 3.4 assists per game, and Dirk averages 3.3 assists per game. Basically, they are a push passing wise. If anything, Duncan's assists numbers should be higher considering he is able to pass it out to open men after he is doubled off of the block. And honestly, this thread is about who is the better player NOW, so Tim's rings are irrelevant. They shape Duncan as a player when his career is said and done with, not how good of a player he is this season. And it doesn't matter what his stats were when they lose their games to those other good teams. The fact of the matter is that they lost, and he should take alot of responsibilty for those loses. Im not saying you can "truly" blame him for a loss, but he is apart of it.
[quote name='ballerman2112' post='274838' date='Jan 28 2007, 07:23 PM']I dont think that Nash would get as many assists in another system as he would in the Phoenix system, but I think he would at least get 9 anywhere else. And I hoenstly dont think his points would go down either. He would get more attempts, and even if he shot 3 percent less from the field, and he shot the ball more, he would score more points. Its not like Nash gets left when his man goes to double another player. Nash is just an incredible shooter when he is guarded and even more when he is open. His assists might go down some, but I think his points would either stay the same or possibly go higher.[/quote]He was left open about 4-5x today against Cleveland. With all the ball movement, with Diaw and Barbosa, and with constant rotation of opposing defenses, Nash is left open quite a bit. He also gets a lot of open transition pullup 3's.I don't think he'd even be a 50% shooter in any other system. 47-49% maybe, but not 50% or higher. He has about 5 other players that can get 30 or so on any given night, and with as many oppertunities they get from that system, I think he'd be right around 9APG or so on any other team. I am trying not to discredit the player nash is, he is incredible, but I feel his stats are skewed quite a bit by the system he is in and the players he is with. Duncan can play more. They have over 30 wins and are basically a lock for a 3 seed in the West. He can play all the minutes they want, but with the aging Spurs they would never catch Dallas or Phoenix. Conserve his energy for the playoffs. You act like he's some old man, but he's only 30 years old! He's still in his prime years, and has showed in games and series' that he can still do what he did a few years ago. He scored 25.5PPG in 01-02. Again, Duncan has had games and series' where he goes for over 5APG or so. He averaged 4APG in a season before. And just by going from watching the games, Duncan is a better passer IMO. You misunderstood the point. Duncan, winning 3 rings, knows what it takes in each series to get to the Finals. he knows how to lead his team, when to take over, and what to do to get it done. His performances in the playoffs and Finals, and his 3 rings give him a certain edge over most other players in the league IMO.When Mavs lose Dirk is also a part of it. You can say that about any star in the league. but when your star is well above his averages, you gotta look at other people to put the bulk of the blame on. The Spurs are aging rapidly, and are clearly not on the same level as Dallas or Phoenix no matter what Duncan puts up (as seen last year in the playoffs). Right now Duncan is a better rebounder, passer, and much better defender than Dirk. And while he is not a better scorer than Dirk, he is still a reliable scoring option and best low post scorer in the league. He is clutch, he has won rings, and comes up huge in big games in playoffs. Give me Duncan over Dirk anyday, but that is just me personally. I suppose it comes down to preference, but to say you really can't argue with Dirk or Nash over Duncan is ridiculous to me as I put Duncan over both.
Who cares how many assists Tim Duncan averages compared to Dirk Nowitzki. Tim Duncan is a very good passer from the post and looks for the open man...throw assists out the window.
