Bulls' starting five flies in face of NBA's trend toward 3-point shooting

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by truebluefan, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The pace and space trend in today's NBA makes for a nice rhyming phrase. So in a nod to the Warriors' Splash Brothers, how about the Bulls' starting lineup becoming the Crash Brothers?

    You know, now that coach Fred Hoiberg officially has named Taj Gibson the starting power forward for Thursday night's opener against the Celtics, there's Robin Lopez setting a hard screen and Gibson crashing for an offensive rebound. Rajon Rondo probes and penetrates the defense to try to get Jimmy Butler and Dwyane Wade drives to the basket, where they power through contact for multiple trips to the foul line.

    That's the vision.

    Of course, a crash also can sound like a shot clanking off the rim, and the Bulls certainly are testing the leaguewide movement toward 3-point shooting with their starting five.

    Gibson undoubtedly won the open competition over Nikola Mirotic, but there's no way around the numbers.

    Read more http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ing-to-strengths-spt-1026-20161025-story.html
     
  2. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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  3. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Wade is actually 28.4%
     
  4. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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  5. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    I'm a fan of what the Bulls did this offseason, but I still have serious concerns about their shooting.

    I see lots of Bulls' message board faithful trying to talk down the issue as if it's irrelevant, but that's poppycock. The importance of shooting and spacing are legit. Unfortunately, our team's lack of shooting was an unavoidable cost that had to be absorbed in order to acquire the talent and dynamism they did.

    I like the trade-off, but it doesn't mean they don't matter.
     
  6. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    This team will get to the line, a lot...If they average significantly more FT's made than opposing teams this could counter the idea that the first five cannot shoot the 3 very well. Steals and more fast break points could also counter it. That is of course all on paper. Actually seeing it come true is another thing.
     
  7. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Uh, I know that it's only 2 games, but guess which team currently leads the whole freakin' NBA in 3-point shooting %?

    And their 3-point volume is middle-of-the-pack.

    Just sayin'.
     
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  8. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Only 2 games..... but its interesting...

    http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor

    Bulls close to rock bottom in pace. #1 in offensive efficiency though. #1 in assist ratio. Low turnover ratio. Top of the heap in offensive rebounding and #3 in overall rebounding.

    I'm not sure what Hoiball exactly is, but I was always told its pace, pace, pace. Bulls are last in pace. But they are moving the ball, crashing the boards and scoring very, very efficiently. Adding a guy like Rondo and a vet superstar like Wade is working so far. Fun to watch!
     
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  9. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you have to separate shooting from spacing. The two are usually correlated, but I think the Bulls greatly improved on their spacing even if their shooting is still a little suspect. Butler, Wade and Rondo are dynamic enough players that you have to guard them tight away from the basket, even if they don't have a ton of range.

    (Never mind the fact that the Bulls' range isn't all that bad. Rondo shot .365 on the threes last season on a decent 2.4 per game volume. That's not too shabby. Butler and Wade are both decent shooters when you consider their ability to hit from range in a variety of contexts.)

    I do agree that the lack of shooting will eventually put a ceiling on this team. Outside of not having a top five type talent, shooting probably will be the biggest difference between an early exit and going deep in the playoffs.
     
  10. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    As to the first two games, both were home games in the first week of the season where the opponent had a travel back to back. The Bulls should be able to win under the circumstances. Let's see where they're at a couple months from now, after their first injury spate.
     
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  11. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    I do support trying to do something different. The Bulls are not going to play Warriors-ball better than the Warriors. Two years ago when the Bulls were one of the top teams in the East and close to at least getting to the NBA Finals everyone wanted the Bulls to be playing small-ball, giving Mirotic and McDermott lots of minutes and doing the pace n space thing.

    Two years later, after hiring a coach who played this way in college, the Bulls are in a much different spot.

    Lots of guys who are either not great 3 point shooters or certainly not high volume quality 3 point shooters. Same new coach though. Through 2 games the Bulls are low pace, high sharing the ball, high scoring efficiency and are really crashing the boards. But the 3 pointer is not one of the main weapons. Its different. The Bulls were not going to get a better roster than the Warriors have to play their style. They were not going to get Lebron. So they are trying something different. If the Bulls are going to succeed anytime soon, being the team that is doing the next big thing in the NBA is the way to go. You just have to get it right, which is hard.

    I don't think this was an active decision by Bulls management, but whatever. With vet winners than can still play in Rondo and Wade, a younger star in Butler and good role players this team could win if this style turns out to be a winning one in the NBA. And perhaps Hoiberg is learning to be a better NBA coach in the process.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  12. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    Great distinction.

    Reflecting on it actually caused me to shift my priors and I'm going to update my model of the Bulls accordingly. Thank you!

    I noticed in last night's game the Nets were really guarding against Rondo's pass, and Hoiberg staggers the lineup so that at least 1 (and usually 2) of Mirotic, McDermott or Canaan are on the floor at the same time.

    The Bulls usually have at least 2 ball handlers, 2 shooters and 1 rim-roller on the floor at all times, so the team doesn't have the problem it had the last two years where it couldn't field good lineups despite good headline talent.

    I don't really see how the back-to-back thing makes much difference at this point. Everyone's fresh at the beginning of the season, so I don't think fatigue has played a big role in any outcomes so far.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  13. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Bulls still #19 in the league in pace.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor


    #2 in assist ratio, #1 in offensive rebounding, and top 5 in eFg and TS%. And #1 in OFF EFF. Pretty interesting if they can keep this up.

    Very little to do with pace though. Low pace.

    Shaping out to be a fun season!
     
  14. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    Good point, and I think it'll be interesting how the Bulls will be able to maintain their style of play into the new year. That should tell us a lot about how sustainable their winning is.

    I think it's possible that some of the early-season success they've had is due to a very unusual set of personnel that has a style of play that's not used very much by other teams. It might lose its zing once the rest of the league becomes acclimated to how it operates.
     
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  15. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I don't happen to think that the Bulls are trying to be the Warriors or purposely following a trend. They're just playing ball...and they look good so far.
     
  16. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Once they went with Rondo, Wade and Butler, yes, that talk was out the window.

    Two seasons ago when folks were drooling over the Atlanta Hawks and GS Warriors and the Iowa State NCAA offense and gushing over the greatness of Doug McDermott and Niko it was a different story. The Bulls currently don't even start a STRETCH 4!!!!! :O

    This team was put together in a slapdash fashion with little planning or forethought. But they are doing a lot of things that lead to winning basketball. Its just not lotsa 3s, high pace, NCAA Hoiball or how the Warriors were/are winning or how the Hawks had the best record in the East utilizing Kyle Korver. Which is what many people were wanting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  17. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    I guess the important thing to remember is that, at least for me, I'm still in NBA2K post trade enjoyment mode. Its fun /strange to see Dwayne Wade and Rondo running around in Bulls jerseys. Even better that they are somehow the top offense in the league and undefeated! Whodathunkit!?!?!!?

    Will there be a hangover soon to this brief euphoria and is any of this early regular season winning meaningful? Probably and probably not. It is fun to witness though just for the sheer unpredictability and the fact that it flies so much in the face of conventional quant NBA reasoning.
     

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