Kobe vs. Wade

I think it's clearly Kobe but since Mavsfan seems to think Wade is better I made this thread. It obviously is Kobe though. I don't think I really have to bother explaining why Kobe is better, I just want to hear how Wade is better than Kobe

 

Keep in mind I am a huge wade fan...It's Kobe. Not even a question in my mind. He is a much better scorer, much better defender, better rebounder, more clutch, and a better leader. He is a better scorer because he's got a fantastic and ultra-reliable jumpshot along with thousands of moves. When his jumpshots is not going he can drive to the basket very well as well. He's a better defender because he can lock a superstar down when need be. Better rebounder is purely on stats. He is more clutch because he always takes over in 4th quarters and a bit better than Wade at hitting the dagger. He is a better leader because, as wade said himself, Wade is just not a vocal guy and won't motivate. Kobe has matured into that kind of guy.They are, IMO, the 2 best players in the league, but Kobe is just on another level than anyone else right now.

 

Here are the lists of things wade does better than kobePassingOff the ball defenseAttacking the basket.That's about it.

 

Gosh, it is obviously Kobe. He is the better scorer, better shooter, better defender, almost as good as a passer, a better rebounder, and is even more clutch. He is the best player in the NBA. Wade is great, but not as good as Kobe. Nobody is...

 

Wade=more efficiency, more blocks, more steals, better passer, more athleticism, and more clutch. He gets all the calls as well because of his relentlessness to the basket. Wade plays his best basketball in the playoffs and it is proven by his finals performance last year while Kobe falls apart in game 7 against the Suns. Haha at using Kobe's .5 more rebounds as a big thing. Yeah I'll give Kobe the adavantage on defense but that's about it. Both slip up a lot on defense though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 7 2007, 01:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wade=more efficiency, more blocks, more steals, better passer, more athleticism, and more clutch. He gets all the calls as well because of his relentlessness to the basket. Wade plays his best basketball in the playoffs and it is proven by his finals performance last year while Kobe falls apart in game 7 against the Suns. Haha at using Kobe's .5 more rebounds as a big thing. Yeah I'll give Kobe the adavantage on defense but that's about it. Both slip up a lot on defense though.</div>-Wade is more efficient in terms of FG %, but it doesn't tell you the whole story. When his driving is cut off he shoots a much worse %. He shoots 6% less from outside the 2-3ft area around the basket than Kobe, worse from 3 and worse from FT line.-Wade gets more steals and blocks but cannot shut you down as a defender. As a man to man defender he is actually somewhat weak. Kobe can shut down the opposing superstar swingman.-Wade is definately a better passer/playmaker, no doubt about that.-Wade is not more athletic. He is a bit faster and explosive off the dribble, but he can't jump nearly as high as Kobe nor can he move through the air and do all the acrobatic moves Kobe can.-Wade is NOT more clutch than Kobe. Kobe is better at hitting the shot to win the game, and each game he is MONEY in the 4th quarter when his team needs him. He himself showed up Wade in the 4th and OT a few weeks ago on national TV. Wade is the next best thing to Kobe in the clutch, though.-Kobe is proven in playoffs. He has put up over 30PPG in Finals, has 3 rings, and MANY game tying and winning shots in both playoffs and finals. He put up over 50 vs Suns ing ame 6, and was amazing in 4th and OT, but teammate sdidn't show up. In game 7 he had like 16pts in first half, but teammates didn't come to play and the Suns just ran all over them. You forget to mention he had 2 buzzer beaters in game 4.

 

[quote name='Nitro1118' post='283309' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:15 AM']-Wade is more efficient in terms of FG %, but it doesn't tell you the whole story. When his driving is cut off he shoots a much worse %. He shoots 6% less from outside the 2-3ft area around the basket than Kobe, worse from 3 and worse from FT line.[/quote]3 point line doesn't matter much because Wade spends more time getting to the line and both are solid free throw shooters with Kobe getting the slight advantage.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='283309' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:15 AM']-Wade gets more steals and blocks but cannot shut you down as a defender. As a man to man defender he is actually somewhat weak. Kobe can shut down the opposing superstar swingman.[/quote] Neither can Kobe. Kobe is an above average defender but isn't a lockdown defender as shooting guards have gone off a few times this year. Both are limited due to having to put more energy on offense.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='283309' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:15 AM']-Wade is not more athletic. He is a bit faster and explosive off the dribble, but he can't jump nearly as high as Kobe nor can he move through the air and do all the acrobatic moves Kobe can.[/quote]I've seen Wade block Kobe and do some spectactular things around the basket. Kobe doesn't win here as he isn't as strong to take the contact around the basket.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='283309' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:15 AM']-Wade is NOT more clutch than Kobe. Kobe is better at hitting the shot to win the game, and each game he is MONEY in the 4th quarter when his team needs him. He himself showed up Wade in the 4th and OT a few weeks ago on national TV. Wade is the next best thing to Kobe in the clutch, though.[/quote]If Wade wasn't clutch the mavs would be world champions. [quote name='Nitro1118' post='283309' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:15 AM']-Kobe is proven in playoffs. He has put up over 30PPG in Finals, has 3 rings, and MANY game tying and winning shots in both playoffs and finals. He put up over 50 vs Suns ing ame 6, and was amazing in 4th and OT, but teammate sdidn't show up. In game 7 he had like 16pts in first half, but teammates didn't come to play and the Suns just ran all over them. You forget to mention he had 2 buzzer beaters in game 4.[/quote]What has he done lately?

 

[quote name='mavsfan1000' post='283312' date='Feb 7 2007, 01:23 AM']3 point line doesn't matter much because Wade spends more time getting to the line and both are solid free throw shooters with Kobe getting the slight advantage.[/quote]When Wade's driving is cut off by great defenders, he is exposed offensively. Kobe did it to him and Hinrich did it to him. And Kobe takes only 2 less FTA's per game, and shoots that at a higher %. Outside of right at the basket, Kobe is more efficient all around, including TO's.

Jamal Crawford dropped 50 on Wade, so that's a moot point. Kobe has SHUT DOWN T-Mac, he has shut down Wade, among other stars like Pierce and Redd (although redd had a big game vs Kobe this year). Kobe is not a consistent defender, but when he wants to put the clamps on he is a top 3 perimeter defender in the league.

Athleticism has nothing to do with ability to take as much contact. If anything, Kobe's ability to avoid countless defenders is more of a testament to his athletic ability. Wade blocked Kobe? Great, but Kobe has blocked a T-Mac fadeaway, countless dunks, etc.. You will never see Wade get his head at rim level like Kobe can, and you will never see him hang in there air for what seems like forever like Kobe. As a small example, Wade tried to do the reverse windmill that Kobe did against the Celtics. What happenned? Clank. Wa eis only more explosive off the dribble.

Umm, I said that Wade is the closest thing to Kobe in the clutch. There is no one, other than Kobe, that I want with the ball in their hands than Wade.

He was one of only 2 players to drop 50 in a playoff game last year, he was only player to hit a buzzer beater to tie a game and a buzzer beater to win...in the same game, etc.. Kobe's teammates failed him. What has Kobe done lately? He brought an immature and crappy team to a 7th seed in the West last year, pushed a team that almost got to the Finals to 7 games, etc... The guy is one of the most accomplished playoff performers in the league.

 

[quote name='Nitro1118' post='283317' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:34 AM']When Wade's driving is cut off by great defenders, he is exposed offensively. Kobe did it to him and Hinrich did it to him. And Kobe takes only 2 less FTA's per game, and shoots that at a higher %. Outside of right at the basket, Kobe is more efficient all around, including TO's.[/quote]With Wade you can't put a Devean George on him. You need very quick guards along with being strong. Not many teams have those. Hinrich is one of the few. [quote name='Nitro1118' post='283317' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:34 AM']Jamal Crawford dropped 50 on Wade, so that's a moot point. Kobe has SHUT DOWN T-Mac, he has shut down Wade, among other stars like Pierce and Redd (although redd had a big game vs Kobe this year). Kobe is not a consistent defender, but when he wants to put the clamps on he is a top 3 perimeter defender in the league.[/quote]You forgot the game Arenas with off for 60 points. [quote name='Nitro1118' post='283317' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:34 AM']Athleticism has nothing to do with ability to take as much contact. If anything, Kobe's ability to avoid countless defenders is more of a testament to his athletic ability. Wade blocked Kobe? Great, but Kobe has blocked a T-Mac fadeaway, countless dunks, etc.. You will never see Wade get his head at rim level like Kobe can, and you will never see him hang in there air for what seems like forever like Kobe. As a small example, Wade tried to do the reverse windmill that Kobe did against the Celtics. What happenned? Clank. Wa eis only more explosive off the dribble.[/quote]Well Kobe has a couple inches over Wade which allows him to shoot over defenders a la Mcgrady but also explains why he is so streaky. Wade is consistently attacking which allows him to have good nights even when his shot is off. [quote name='Nitro1118' post='283317' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:34 AM']Umm, I said that Wade is the closest thing to Kobe in the clutch. There is no one, other than Kobe, that I want with the ball in their hands than Wade.He was one of only 2 players to drop 50 in a playoff game last year, he was only player to hit a buzzer beater to tie a game and a buzzer beater to win...in the same game, etc.. Kobe's teammates failed him. What has Kobe done lately? He brought an immature and crappy team to a 7th seed in the West last year, pushed a team that almost got to the Finals to 7 games, etc... The guy is one of the most accomplished playoff performers in the league.[/quote]Well as of last year Wade is more clutch. Kobe got plenty of clutch games when Shaq was in his prime. Also once Shaq started getting old Kobe wasn't able to get a ring. 03-04 and 04-05. Wade won it with a way over the hill Shaq.

 

[quote name='mavsfan1000' post='283320' date='Feb 7 2007, 01:48 AM']With Wade you can't put a Devean George on him. You need very quick guards along with being strong. Not many teams have those. Hinrich is one of the few.[/quote]Nontheless, it is still a chink in Wade's offensive armor. Kobe doesn't have any chinks. He is an amazing shooter from anywhere and can drive almost at will as well.

But again, people have gone off on wade too, so it's a moot point. But Kobe has shut down other stars way more times than Wade has, and his man to man defensive skills are far superior to wade's.

Again, there are times when Wade won't be able to ge to basket at will. He doesn't have the jumpshot to score nearly as efficiently as he normally does. Kobe on the other hand can drop 40 on you without getting a ton of points in paint or FTA's.

Kobe has had plenty of clutch games since Shaq has left as well. Many game winners, he has taken over about 5-6 games in the 4th already this year, etc... Shaq was the reason they won vs the Bulls in 1st round, in 2nd and 3rd rounds the teammates gave him a big boost, and in Finals Wade was incredible but the Mavs played bad D and Dirk was quiet for the most part in the series. Kobe won them games in Finals with Shaq fouled out (like against Indiana), had over 30PPG in a Finals series (against Sixers), hit game tying and winning shots in Finals (game 2 vs detroit), mant game winning shots in playoffs, etc.. Forget the list of accomplishments from both players, Kobe can take over games and hit the last shot better than Wade can, and that's where it ends for me.

 

I have no idea why you are even responding to him. Everyone on BBW knows mavsfan knows nothing about the nba outside of dirk Nowitzki.Actually, maybe he does know but he is just biased as hell.

 

[quote name='Nitro1118' post='283321' date='Feb 7 2007, 07:03 AM']Nontheless, it is still a chink in Wade's offensive armor. Kobe doesn't have any chinks. He is an amazing shooter from anywhere and can drive almost at will as well.[/quote]If Kobe was as amazing as you say he is he would be shooting a higher percentage from the field. [quote name='Nitro1118' post='283317' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:34 AM']But again, people have gone off on wade too, so it's a moot point. But Kobe has shut down other stars way more times than Wade has, and his man to man defensive skills are far superior to wade's.[/quote]Kobe is better than Wade on defense but I feel Wade can play solid defense when it is needed. [quote name='Nitro1118' post='283317' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:34 AM']Again, there are times when Wade won't be able to ge to basket at will. He doesn't have the jumpshot to score nearly as efficiently as he normally does. Kobe on the other hand can drop 40 on you without getting a ton of points in paint or FTA's.[/quote] So far it hasn't hurt Wade's shooting percentage but I say he is a good midrange shooter and in big games tends to shoot much better. [quote name='Nitro1118' post='283317' date='Feb 7 2007, 06:34 AM']Kobe has had plenty of clutch games since Shaq has left as well. Many game winners, he has taken over about 5-6 games in the 4th already this year, etc... Shaq was the reason they won vs the Bulls in 1st round, in 2nd and 3rd rounds the teammates gave him a big boost, and in Finals Wade was incredible but the Mavs played bad D and Dirk was quiet for the most part in the series. Kobe won them games in Finals with Shaq fouled out (like against Indiana), had over 30PPG in a Finals series (against Sixers), hit game tying and winning shots in Finals (game 2 vs detroit), mant game winning shots in playoffs, etc.. Forget the list of accomplishments from both players, Kobe can take over games and hit the last shot better than Wade can, and that's where it ends for me.[/quote]Don't pull this the Mavs didn't play good D again. They contested all his shots but Wade was just on fire. (Trying not to talk about the refs ) You got a selective memory. Efficiency tells the whole story and more of Wade's shots go down than Kobe's and Wade is a better passer as well. Overall a bigger threat on offense and an irritant on defense. Kobe not as much though he stays with his man most of the time.

 

^^Why can't you post like that more often?Anyways, regarding wade's shots going down more. Kobe shoots 47% from the field and 36% from 3 land. Wade shoots 49% from the field and 25% from 3 land.Kobe shoots .415 combined from the field and 3 landWade shoots .37 combined from the field and 3 land.Statistically, that's rubbish. Add the ft% shooting and overall kobe is more effecient scoring wise.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Feb 7 2007, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^^Why can't you post like that more often?</div>Laziness I guess. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Feb 7 2007, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyways, regarding wade's shots going down more. Kobe shoots 47% from the field and 36% from 3 land. Wade shoots 49% from the field and 25% from 3 land.Kobe shoots .415 combined from the field and 3 landWade shoots .37 combined from the field and 3 land.Statistically, that's rubbish. Add the ft% shooting and overall kobe is more effecient scoring wise.</div>You are overempasizing the 3 point line. 3 point percentage means about as much to Wade as it does Duncan. Wade shouldn't be shooting 3 pointers unless it is desparation time. For Kobe though it is a bigger part of his game though so yeah Kobe better be hitting a high percentage from there.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 7 2007, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Laziness I guess. You are overempasizing the 3 point line. 3 point percentage means about as much to Wade as it does Duncan. Wade shouldn't be shooting 3 pointers unless it is desparation time. For Kobe though it is a bigger part of his game though so yeah Kobe better be hitting a high percentage from there.</div>True. But this is all about stats and 3p% and ft% is a huge part of nba statistics. To say wade is more effecient as a scorer is wrong statistically as I've already proven. Also, I'd like to add that the lakers use Kobe bryant horribly. Its been 2 seasons with PJ and we have not been able to actually use kobe properly.

 

To be exact I'll fine the efficiency of each player. Wade made 390 of 800 shots from the field. He made 18 of 71 of them from 3 point range. Wade made 381 out of 467 free throws. So to put together 3 pointers and field goals Wade got 798 points out of 800 field goal attempts. 390*2+18=798. Divide free throw attemps by 2 since you usually go to the line 2 times per shot attempt. 381 points for 233.5 shot attempts. So for Wade's final efficiency 1179 points for 1033.5 shots attempts. 1179/1033.5= 1.1408 points per shotKobe's Efficiency Now. Kobe made 430/915 shots. 78/215 for 3 pointers. 358/418 from the line. 430*2=860+78 3 pointers=938 points for 915 shots. Divide the free attempts by 2 to get the normal amound of shot attemps for that free throw. 915+209=1124 shot attempts. 938+358= 1296 points. 1296 points/1124 shot attempts= 1.15302 points per shot. Ok Kobe barely wins when it comes to efficiency. Wade clearly wins the passing though. You put your team in risk of giving up fastbreak points when you shoot a lot of 3's like Kobe does. Kobe is 0.98% more efficient overall though counting 3 pointers, field goals, and free throws. I got a headache now. lol

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 7 2007, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To be exact I'll fine the efficiency of each player. Wade made 390 of 800 shots from the field. He made 18 of 71 of them from 3 point range. Wade made 381 out of 467 free throws. So to put together 3 pointers and field goals Wade got 798 points out of 800 field goal attempts. 390*2+18=798. Divide free throw attemps by 2 since you usually go to the line 2 times per shot attempt. 381 points for 233.5 shot attempts. So for Wade's final efficiency 1179 points for 1033.5 shots attempts. 1179/1033.5= 1.1408 points per shotKobe's Efficiency Now. Kobe made 430/915 shots. 78/215 for 3 pointers. 358/418 from the line. 430*2=860+78 3 pointers=938 points for 915 shots. Divide the free attempts by 2 to get the normal amound of shot attemps for that free throw. 915+209=1124 shot attempts. 938+358= 1296 points. 1296 points/1124 shot attempts= 1.15302 points per shot. Ok Kobe barely wins when it comes to efficiency. Wade clearly wins the passing though. Kobe is 0.98% more efficient overall counting 3 pointers, field goals, and free throws. I got a headache now. lol</div> :dribble: so next time someone says wade is the more effecient scorer, I'll quote that.

 

[quote name='mavsfan1000' post='283327' date='Feb 7 2007, 02:25 AM']If Kobe was as amazing as you say he is he would be shooting a higher percentage from the field.[/quote]He shoots only 2% less, and 6% better from outside right at the basket. He shoots a higger % from both 3 and FT line (where wade does more than 1/3 of his scoring). And again, slow down Wade's driving and he isn't nearly as efficient as Kobe.

Solid defense is far different than lockdown defense like Kobe can play.

He is a good midrange jumpshooter, but Kobe is far better midrange and long range shooter. You say his 3pt woes don't matter because he doesn't shoot it enough and it isn't a big arsenal to his game. Problem with that is that when his driving is slowed down or cut off he becomes very one dimensional to his decent midrange game. Give me Kobe, who can beat you handedly as a driver and/or jumpshooter than Wade.

Mavs didn't do exactly what cavs couldn't do to wade in 4th a week ago...they couldn't get ball out of his hands, couldn't keep him out of the paint, and let him get the occasional wide open shot from the wing. He wasn't on fire, only shot 44% for the series and did most of that damage at the rim. Efficiency doesn't tell the whole story. Looking at stats it is clearly visible that Wade is fairly one dimensional as a scorer, and when he plays a guard who can keep up with him he shotos bad %'s. Kobe himself showed that when wade can't drive at basket that he isn't nearly as efficient and has a hard time scoring. Kobe can beat you in any way possible as a scorer. With all that in mind, Kobe shoots only 2% less than wade, shoots 5% better from the line, turns the ball over less, etc...Give me the player who, when need be, can lock down the opposing star swingman over an "irritant".

 

Like I said one dimensional hasn't hurt him to this point. He would shoot a lower percentage if it did overall. I guess the rest of the nba doesn't know about it. Wade is so explosive and strong that he is probably the best one dimensional player in the league. If he had an accurate 3 point shot he would be unstoppable for sure than.

 

Basically Mavsfan, you are siding with a guy who has been in the league for 4 years, compared to Kobe who has been in for over 10 years, and has gotten better every single season. Face it, Kobe is the better player. Anything you say about Wade except for his will to drive to the basket, Kobe is better at (except probably passing, but that is because Kobe looks to score more). Kobe doesn't need to get to the basket as much because his jumpshot is amazing. He can make it to the highest degree of dificulty and he makes it look so damn easy. Against the Celtics about 3 or 4 games ago, Kobe put up like 7-9 3 pointers or something like that, and they were ALL extremely tough. One of them was at the end of the 3rd quarter from 30+ feet and he shot in normally, and drained it. Wade is great at getting to the rim, but he overexaggerates calls. I have just started to admit it. Kobe is also the better defender. Wade is a below average defender. When Kobe plays against other good scorers, he always seems to do well. He did win 1st team all defense for a reason...