It is currently Thursday the 8th on the United States, your opening round matchup will begin tonight at midnight, and end next Thursday at midnight.Topic: Chris Bosh vs Dwight Howard, if you had to pick one player to have on your team, which would you take and why?
I think I'll have to take Chris Bosh on this one now. He's totally convinced me. I mean, he can rebound, drive, basically do all things a big man of his age should. Plus he's got range. He's shown he can have a very impressive stat line by not forcing it and playing team basketball. Plus, he's got range! That's a big reason why he can get really rolling.Not any disrespect to Howard, he is a beast. I would say that CB4 is more well-rounded than Howard, but Dwight has some really big things about him. In a case of a making a team better, I would take the guy who can do what the other guy can do and more. He can open up the floor much more as well.
I would definatey take Dwight Howard.Well, lets start it off on the offensive end. He is averaging 18 points a game right now, and he is not even developed his offensive post game to the half of his ability. He has about 1 to 2 good post moves a game, and all of the others come off of dunks or alley oops. He doesn't take nearly as many shots a game as Bosh does, and when he does take alot of attempts, he always shoots an amazing percentage. Once Dwight can become more confident in his post game, he will be an absolute monster on the offensive end. He has the ability to overpower his defender, and Chris sometimes settles from the perimeter which isnt always a good thing. In todays game, it is much better to find a player who can overpower you around the basket, and overjump you. And once he developes his inside game better, and gains more confidence, he is going to be unstoppable. I think Chris Bosh is going to get better, but you cant get all that much better when alot of your shots are taken from the perimeter.Next, I will go to rebounding. Dwight is already one of the top 3 rebounders in the league on both ends of the floor. He is IMO, the best offensive rebounder in the entire game. While Bosh is a good rebounder, he isnt strong enough to battle downlow with some of the other emerging big men. Dwight is not only strong, but he has one of the biggest verticals in the NBA for a man of his size. The Kid is only 20 years old, and he has so much potential to get 14+ rebounds a game in a couple seasons.On the defensive end, I would much rather take Howard as well. Like I said earlier, Bosh isnt strong enough to compete defensivley with some of the bigger guys in the NBA. Notice that Toronto is statistically not a very good defensive team, and if I remember correctly, Orlando is one of the better defensive ball clubs in the league. And that ALL goes back to your interior defense, and their best players. Which in this case, is both Bosh and Dwight. Both guys can move on the perimeter to stay in front of their man, but Dwight is a slightly better shot blocker, and can body up to the player better than Bosh can.And you say that you like Bosh because he has range on his game. And IMO, that is not always a good thing. Even though his mid range game is pretty damn good, sometimes, that leads players to settle from the outside. And when your 6 11, and you settle from the outside, it is not a good thing. You dont need a big guy on your team to bring out the defense. As long as you are powerful enough and skilled enough downlow in the post, you dont need to have a good game on the perimeter. Dwight has shown in the last 2 games that he can score, and shoot a VERY good percentage, and he didnt need to go to the perimeter to do that.
[quote name='ballerman2112' post='285720' date='Feb 10 2007, 11:21 AM']I would definatey take Dwight Howard.Well, lets start it off on the offensive end. He is averaging 18 points a game right now, and he is not even developed his offensive post game to the half of his ability. He has about 1 to 2 good post moves a game, and all of the others come off of dunks or alley oops. He doesn't take nearly as many shots a game as Bosh does, and when he does take alot of attempts, he always shoots an amazing percentage. Once Dwight can become more confident in his post game, he will be an absolute monster on the offensive end. He has the ability to overpower his defender, and Chris sometimes settles from the perimeter which isnt always a good thing. In todays game, it is much better to find a player who can overpower you around the basket, and overjump you. And once he developes his inside game better, and gains more confidence, he is going to be unstoppable. I think Chris Bosh is going to get better, but you cant get all that much better when alot of your shots are taken from the perimeter.[/quote]You make it seem like settling at the perimeter is because he's not able to take it in closer. Well it's not really a weakness if he can use it right, and he is using it right. And it's not like it's his only option. he could pass it off or something like that, but being confident in making a shot that isn't common for big men is a big plus. Also, he can take it in. Dwight might be better, but he's much more well rounded. Bosh is only averaging 1 less rebound than Dwight. What makes you think Bosh can't outrebound other guys when he's doing it already? Age? Well they are both young, nothing really to say there. They both have potential. You can't blame the Raptors' defense on Bosh. They give up a lot because they are a fast-paced team; they rely more on their smaller guys for defense too. And that's not because Bosh is not a good defender. Bosh reminds me a lot of Garnett, and he is a guy with a skinnier frame too. Just because his interior isn't the best in the league, doesn't mean it's all you can count him for. He is much faster than Dwight, and he can defend out of the post too, whereas you can only give much credit for Dwight's inside game. A big guy with range is dangerous, plus he has an inside game as well. You can't discredit him for having more than one gun in his arsenal. Sure, being good inside is great and all, but it's purely common sense that 2 heads is better than one. Bosh has 2 offensive heads!!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (7Goat @ Feb 10 2007, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You make it seem like settling at the perimeter is because he's not able to take it in closer. Well it's not really a weakness if he can use it right, and he is using it right. And it's not like it's his only option. he could pass it off or something like that, but being confident in making a shot that isn't common for big men is a big plus. Also, he can take it in. Dwight might be better, but he's much more well rounded.Bosh is only averaging 1 less rebound than Dwight. What makes you think Bosh can't outrebound other guys when he's doing it already? Age? Well they are both young, nothing really to say there. They both have potential.You can't blame the Raptors' defense on Bosh. They give up a lot because they are a fast-paced team; they rely more on their smaller guys for defense too. And that's not because Bosh is not a good defender. Bosh reminds me a lot of Garnett, and he is a guy with a skinnier frame too. Just because his interior isn't the best in the league, doesn't mean it's all you can count him for. He is much faster than Dwight, and he can defend out of the post too, whereas you can only give much credit for Dwight's inside game.A big guy with range is dangerous, plus he has an inside game as well. You can't discredit him for having more than one gun in his arsenal. Sure, being good inside is great and all, but it's purely common sense that 2 heads is better than one. Bosh has 2 offensive heads!!!</div>I am not saying that it is bad for Bosh to have a perimeter game, but in todays game, having a real dominant and strong post up player is something that is VERY useful. That is why most people a couple years ago would take Duncan any day of the week over Dirk. (im not using this year because Dirk's supporting cast is SO much better, and this year is making Dirk look better). Also, when you shooter closer to the basket, it is obvious that your field goal percentage is going to be better. Sometimes, Bosh stays on the perimeter when he should go to the basket. Its not bad that he has an outside game, but a center or power forward that actually plays his position like his suppossed to is better IMO.Once again, im not saying that Bosh can't outrebound other guys, but stats prove that Dwight is a better rebounder. And Dwights advantage in phsyicallity will help him more down the road. If Dwight and Bosh are going up for a rebound, and both have equal position, Dwight is going to get that 7/10 times. He is stronger, he can get position better, and he is even more athletic. Also, like you said above, Toronto is a "fast paced team", so Bosh's rebounds are going to be a little bit boosted. There is almost a two year age difference between the two. Take Dwight in two years (guess that he progresses alot which he probably will), and take Bosh right now. IMO, Dwight is a better player right now, so think how much better he is going to be in 2 seasons of playing.The raptors have a very poor interior defense, and I will blame alot of that on Bosh. He is a weak defender in the post. And even if the rest of his team is weak on the perimeter (which isnt true; they have a few good perimeter defenders), interior defense is the most important because big men play around the basket. Bosh is a decent shot blocker, but he cant body up to the opposition like Dwight can. He just isnt strong enough. And even if he can go out to the perimeter, there arent that many PF's that play mainly on the perimter, so most of his defense is going to be played inside. Also, you are acting like Dwight is slow and cant move his feet, which isnt true at all.I already addressed what I felt about Bosh's outside game. I am not saying it is bad, but playing around the basket more is better. If you can be dominant around the basket, an outside game isnt needed. You shoot better around the basket anyways. I would like for you to go on 82games.com and tell me where Bosh shoots better. From inside the paint, or from mid range and beyond. That is the reason that I think it is better for a big man to strictly stay inside.
[quote name='ballerman2112' post='286795' date='Feb 11 2007, 05:13 PM']I am not saying that it is bad for Bosh to have a perimeter game, but in todays game, having a real dominant and strong post up player is something that is VERY useful. That is why most people a couple years ago would take Duncan any day of the week over Dirk. (im not using this year because Dirk's supporting cast is SO much better, and this year is making Dirk look better). Also, when you shooter closer to the basket, it is obvious that your field goal percentage is going to be better. Sometimes, Bosh stays on the perimeter when he should go to the basket. Its not bad that he has an outside game, but a center or power forward that actually plays his position like his suppossed to is better IMO.[/quote]I don't think it's fair to relate Bosh to Dirk and Duncan to Dwight. Duncan to me is on a different level than Dirk, and they never both played each other in their prime so it's not going to be an accurate comparison. But, it's your opinion and it's not going to change, so I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. But I am going to say that it's always better to have another thing to use on offense if you can't get the inside to work. What works for Bosh works for Bosh, and for Dwight, Dwight. Boosted rebounds? Prove you case. I think it's more of an excuse because the rebounding isn't all that far away from Dwight's than most people say it is. Rebounds are rebounds; Bosh has his deal of hard rebounds as well.Also, I think pulling the age card isn't a great case. So what if Bosh is 2 years older? They are both NBA players and 2 years isn't really all that much. All that matters is that they are playing in the same year as each other and nothing can change that. Don't make this debate based on hypothetical nonsense. You're making it out to be that Bosh is a horrible guy that can only guard the perimeter. Well, he's not. Sure, he's not the NBA's elite in that category, but he can still hold guys to a reasonably good level. Even if he can't defend them [which is entirely false], he will just penetrate on offense and dominate the game that way anyways. Of course people people hit more from inside. Does that mean everyone plays inside? No. Bosh is just the guy who is able to play from outside of the paint as well as inside, so why not use it? You said it yourself, not many big men defend the area outside the paint, so obviously it's an advantage. And if you can play inside to, that's great. Bosh has both. Add Bosh's overall offensive game and Dwight's offensive game, you'll see Bosh has more to do with that ball, it's an advantage. Dwight does his thing and Bosh does his. But Bosh's versatile big-man style is more advantageous than just one thing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (7Goat @ Feb 11 2007, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think it's fair to relate Bosh to Dirk and Duncan to Dwight. Duncan to me is on a different level than Dirk, and they never both played each other in their prime so it's not going to be an accurate comparison. But, it's your opinion and it's not going to change, so I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. But I am going to say that it's always better to have another thing to use on offense if you can't get the inside to work. What works for Bosh works for Bosh, and for Dwight, Dwight.Boosted rebounds? Prove you case. I think it's more of an excuse because the rebounding isn't all that far away from Dwight's than most people say it is. Rebounds are rebounds; Bosh has his deal of hard rebounds as well.Also, I think pulling the age card isn't a great case. So what if Bosh is 2 years older? They are both NBA players and 2 years isn't really all that much. All that matters is that they are playing in the same year as each other and nothing can change that. Don't make this debate based on hypothetical nonsense.You're making it out to be that Bosh is a horrible guy that can only guard the perimeter. Well, he's not. Sure, he's not the NBA's elite in that category, but he can still hold guys to a reasonably good level. Even if he can't defend them [which is entirely false], he will just penetrate on offense and dominate the game that way anyways.Of course people people hit more from inside. Does that mean everyone plays inside? No. Bosh is just the guy who is able to play from outside of the paint as well as inside, so why not use it? You said it yourself, not many big men defend the area outside the paint, so obviously it's an advantage. And if you can play inside to, that's great. Bosh has both. Add Bosh's overall offensive game and Dwight's offensive game, you'll see Bosh has more to do with that ball, it's an advantage. Dwight does his thing and Bosh does his. But Bosh's versatile big-man style is more advantageous than just one thing.</div>I think that is a very fair comparison between Dwight and Bosh, to Dirk and Tim. I am not necessarily just using Duncan, but take a guy like Shaq or KG, who play mainly around the basket. They are more of a dominant force than a guy like Dirk. Even though Dirk is a great player (just like Bosh), it is IMO better to have a guy to play around the basket more. It creates for a better field goal percentage, and a more efficient offensive scoring game. Just look at Dwight. He shoots over 59% from the field. That is absoutley amazing. Even though Bosh shoots a good percentage, imagine how good it would be if he didnt settle from the outside, and focused more on his inside game.It is fair to say that if you have more possession in a game, that a player is going to get more rebounds. There are going to be more shot attempts, so there are going to be more missed field goals. It is a pretty simple concept to understand....Your right though. Rebounds are rebounds, and Dwight averages more rebounds per game than Bosh, so he is a better rebounder. And in the future, Dwights strength and athletic ability will still lead him to get more RPG than Bosh.Actually, pulling the age card is a VERY good case. What do you mean that 2 years isnt that big of a difference. Why dont you go look at Chris Bosh two years ago and compare him to Dwight right now. They arent even close. And take Dwight Howard in 2 years and compare him to Bosh right now, and I guarantee you that both of us and most of the world would say that Dwight is easily the better player. 2 years of experience is a big deal in the NBA. It gives players more time to develope, get comfortable, and adjust to how the NBA is played. 2 years difference is a VERY big deal, and it is very necessary to bring up in this arguement. And even if you want me to not base it on "hypothetical nonsense", then I will take both players as of right now. And it is still very close. BUT, this really isnt hypothetical. It is a fact that Bosh is older, and it is a very good educated guess that when young players like Dwight get 2 more years of experience under their belt, their will be drastic improvement. You are making it sound like Bosh is a good defensive player when he isnt. The Raps arent a good defensive ball club, and a very big reason for that is because they have a weak interior defense. And Bosh takes up alot of minutes at the PF spot, and he is a main reason that their defense is as weak as it is. Have you ever thought that the reason the Raps play such a fast paced game is because their defense is so poor. Since their offense is the good part about their team, they try and get more possessions to make up for their weak interior defense which Bosh definitely contributes to. He isnt a very mobile body under the basket, and it is alot easier for other big PF's or C's to score on Bosh than Dwight.If people hit more from the inside, than why doesn't Bosh focus more on his inside game? I guarantee you that he shoots a better percentage from inside the paint. You keep on bringing up that Bosh has a great mid range game. But once again, if he was taking those shots from the inside rather than the periemter, his scoring would be up and so would his field goal percentage. Just look at Dwight....He might not score as much as Bosh, but he scores much more efficently shooting nearly 60% from the field. That is near the tops in the entire NBA. And that is because he is very good around the basket with getting offensive rebounds, dunks, using his atheltic ability, and a couple good post moves a game. He scores more efficently, and he scores like a PF should score.
[quote name='ballerman2112' post='286870' date='Feb 11 2007, 06:59 PM']I think that is a very fair comparison between Dwight and Bosh, to Dirk and Tim. I am not necessarily just using Duncan, but take a guy like Shaq or KG, who play mainly around the basket. They are more of a dominant force than a guy like Dirk. Even though Dirk is a great player (just like Bosh), it is IMO better to have a guy to play around the basket more. It creates for a better field goal percentage, and a more efficient offensive scoring game. Just look at Dwight. He shoots over 59% from the field. That is absoutley amazing. Even though Bosh shoots a good percentage, imagine how good it would be if he didnt settle from the outside, and focused more on his inside game.[/quote]You're exaggerating how Bosh plays by comparing him to Dirk. They are 2 different players, and Bosh doesn't rely nearly as much as Dirk on the longer ranged shots.And you already told me that Bosh isn't strong enough to man up with the guy in the nitty-gritty. Even though he could do that anyways, how advantageous would it be for him to do something that isn't for him? Seriously, any team would be fine with a rebounder like Bosh. Along with his other things, he is fine if he isn't the best in the league at that. He is much better than Dwight at many things. Saying that he is so much better is a rebounder is wrong. You do agree with my statement that rebounds are rebounds, so really you just gave up your argument regarding that. What I mean is, that Bosh will always be 2 years older than Dwight. You can't change that. And when Dwight is the same age Bosh is now, Bosh will be doing great things too. It is a point to make, sure, but we're comparing which player you would take, not who is better at a certain age. People could say that about Kobe and AI, but it doesn't apply because they are both still playing at the same time. Whatever works? I think we'll just be saying the same thing back and forth. Let's just leave it at opinions? If people hit more from the inside, why doesn't every player focus more on their inside game? Bosh is a different player. You said it himself that you don't believe Bosh can handle all that inside stuff. He's doing what he needs to and is doing a pretty damn good job at it. Bosh's role on the team isn't to be the inside presence either. He will still do it though, but he's not the same type like Shaq or Dwight. My case still stands, I would rather pick a versatile Forward like Bosh who can fill his role. Don't make it seem like Bosh is doing what he has to wrong or bad. I'm sure if Bosh needed to be the typical big man he would. But as you can see from how the Raptors are doing [compared to how they were expected], he's doing fine as he is.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (7Goat @ Feb 12 2007, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You're exaggerating how Bosh plays by comparing him to Dirk. They are 2 different players, and Bosh doesn't rely nearly as much as Dirk on the longer ranged shots.And you already told me that Bosh isn't strong enough to man up with the guy in the nitty-gritty. Even though he could do that anyways, how advantageous would it be for him to do something that isn't for him?Seriously, any team would be fine with a rebounder like Bosh. Along with his other things, he is fine if he isn't the best in the league at that. He is much better than Dwight at many things. Saying that he is so much better is a rebounder is wrong. You do agree with my statement that rebounds are rebounds, so really you just gave up your argument regarding that.What I mean is, that Bosh will always be 2 years older than Dwight. You can't change that. And when Dwight is the same age Bosh is now, Bosh will be doing great things too. It is a point to make, sure, but we're comparing which player you would take, not who is better at a certain age. People could say that about Kobe and AI, but it doesn't apply because they are both still playing at the same time. Whatever works? I think we'll just be saying the same thing back and forth. Let's just leave it at opinions?If people hit more from the inside, why doesn't every player focus more on their inside game? Bosh is a different player. You said it himself that you don't believe Bosh can handle all that inside stuff. He's doing what he needs to and is doing a pretty damn good job at it. Bosh's role on the team isn't to be the inside presence either. He will still do it though, but he's not the same type like Shaq or Dwight. My case still stands, I would rather pick a versatile Forward like Bosh who can fill his role. Don't make it seem like Bosh is doing what he has to wrong or bad. I'm sure if Bosh needed to be the typical big man he would. But as you can see from how the Raptors are doing [compared to how they were expected], he's doing fine as he is.</div>I was just making a comparison that players who play more inside than outside are more dominant players, than players who tend to stay on the perimeter more. I didnt just necessarily mean Dirk, but players like that in general. Like I would rather have alot of players at my center positon than Okur. Even though he is a really good shooter for a big man, I would prefer my big man to be down low, because percentages would be higher, he would be around the glass more to rebound, and he would be playing his natural position.I said that he wasnt as strong as Dwight, and thats what makes Dwight a better rebounder. You can still play around the basket and not be a physically strong player. His percentages are higher around the basket, so he should play around there more. He is a big man, and he should be around the basket. It is just the logical thing for him to do. He has plenty of guys on his team that can shoot from the mid range and beyond. They do not however have a guy who can play under the basket besides him. I feel their team would be better if he played under the basket more. But that is just me...There is where you are wrong. He is not much better than Dwight at ANYTHING. Dwight has proven since he was a rookie that he is a better rebounder, Dwight is a more efficenent scorer, and he is a better defender. Bosh might be able to score in many different ways, but I think I have already shared my views on that. haha. Dwight is a better rebounder. period. By you saying "rebounds are rebounds" kinda proves my point in that Dwight is a better rebounder. Even though I have been talking about Bosh not being as physically strong, it all comes down to in the end Dwight getting more boards per game than Bosh anyways.....Therefore, he is a better rebounder. Do you disagree?You are really looking at this age thing the wrong way. Look at Bosh two years ago, and look how good of a player he was. Now look at Dwight this year and look how good he is. Dwight and Chris are pretty much just as good as each other this season. They are leading their teams to similar records, they are both putting up good stats, and they are the best players on their team. BUT, Bosh has more experience in basketball and in the league. If you look at Dwight two years from now, imagine how much progress he will make. Bosh made alot of progress in two years, and I think it is fair to say that when Dwight is Bosh's age, he will have made alot of progress on both ends of the floor as well.Well, notice how 90% of big men DO focus on their inside game more, and how if a player is wide open and have a lane, they go to the basket. You say that it isnt Bosh's role on the team to be an inside player, than whos is it? Bargnani? Nesterovic? I dont think so. Bosh is the ONLY player on that team that can score from the inside, and by him settling from the outside, I think it hurts the team a little bit. The Raps are playing pretty good basketball right now, but I think that if Bosh played more of an inside game, and took higher percentaged shots, the raps would be doing even better than they are right now. And remember, the Raps are doing better this season not just because of Bosh, but they have added alot of players this year to help their team, so dont make it sound like it is all Bosh that is making their team do so much better.
