Your opening round matchup will start tonight at midnight, and end next tuesday at midnight.Topic: If Kobe Bryant is considered the best player in the league today, who is the second best player in the game today, and why are they the second best player in the league?
Well its a very hard Question. firstly there a number if guys to look at Dirk, LBJ, Wade, Nash, KG, TD etc etc. But I'll go with LBJ for this one as the topic is the second BEST, not the most successful, best leader etc.LeBron James has to be the second best player in the league. The guy can do it all. He is a point guard in a forwards body. He makes his team mates better, and when the game is close he pulls it out. Look at last years playoffs, he almost led his team past the Pistons. The Pistons who had been dominant all year, the same Pistons who had four all stars. When it came to crunch time LBJ was virtually unstoppable! Game 7 in Detroit proved too much but simply getting that far against one of the Leagues best teams is an awesome feat and a indicator of his greatness.Now I could ramble on about his stats and how he is one of the league leading scorers while still dishing out more assists than alot of point guards in the League. I could go on about how at such a young age his leadership is better than guys 5-10 years more experience than him. All I really need to say is that LBJ is the second best because of his ALLROUND play! He scores in bunches hands out assists like a PG and rebounds like a guy his size should.Dirk might have a better shot, Wade might get to the line more, Nash might have more MVP's and Gilbert might put up 50 more often but no-one else can put up 30 while getting 6-8 assists and boards and play such good D. (And make no mistake his Defense is better than most!)I dont really see there is much point in arguing with this, I mean sure you can argue the other guys but no-one will really measure up in all round play.
I agree this is a very hard question to debate with. I also looked at many choices and ultimately narrowed it down to two, and had to make a hard choice on who to pick. I'm going with Dywane Wade. (And this is coming from someone who despises Wade. So be sure that I am wincing every time I praise him.) :winkglasses: The thing that makes Wade great is just his plain ability to get the hole and rack up high-percentage points. In my opinion, he is the best slasher bar none in the game, and no one can stop him once he gets going. The only way to stop him is to foul him, which then he will easily sink both of the free-throws.One glaring weakness that comes to be about Lebron is his horrific free-throw percentage. 68% is a crazy bad percentage for a wing player who's job is to score. Wade racks in at 81%, a better than average number, which brings me to my next point. Wade gets to the line. A lot. He leads the league in FT shots with 476, with the next one being at 448. If that's not dominate I don't know what is.Wade too has an all-around game, even some would say better than Lebron. Wade gets 2 more assists per game than Lebron, and only 3 less rebounds despite being 4 inches shorter, and playing more minutes than Dywane.You have to go with Wade. No doubt.
Yes Wade would be a contender for the number 2 spot, but only if LBJ wasn't around. A few points that I must refute.- Wade being better because of his FT%. That is pure baloney. It doesn't matter who hits more ft during the game it matters who hits them at the end of the game. And for the most part LBJ is great in clutch time and hits a high percentage of clutch free throws. I mean is Brad Miller better than Shaq because he has a higher FT%? Exactly my point. I am also surprised that you consider 80% ft a "better than average" also.Yes Wade does get to the rack more and yet his fg% is a measly 48%. It seems that shooting these higher % shots isn't helping him as much as you would have us believe.Now the one thing that stands out as the defining factor in this debate is winning. Since we are debating the CURRENT second best player, Wade's Last year performance's don't factor in. That being said look at the records. Miami are below .500 and Cleveland are well above it. Sure Shaq was out but even with him in the Heat were trounced by the Cavs in thier most recent outing against each other. Wade is a good player but he has lost something this year- Its like he has forgotten how to win?! LBJ has come to play he is hungrier, more confident and the Cavs are currently sitting in 3rd in the East. LBJ is winning Wade is not. THAT to me is the defineing factor.To summarise, Wade shoots closer to the basket but is still only hitting less than 50% of his shots. Wade hits a better FT% overall but thats a moot point if the FT's are in a loss. Besides LBJ hit them when they matter. LBJ has his team wining and Wade does not. That really should put the debate to bed. Thanks
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Captain @ Feb 9 2007, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes Wade would be a contender for the number 2 spot, but only if LBJ wasn't around.A few points that I must refute.- Wade being better because of his FT%. That is pure baloney. It doesn't matter who hits more ft during the game it matters who hits them at the end of the game. And for the most part LBJ is great in clutch time and hits a high percentage of clutch free throws. I mean is Brad Miller better than Shaq because he has a higher FT%? Exactly my point. I am also surprised that you consider 80% ft a "better than average" also.Yes Wade does get to the rack more and yet his fg% is a measly 48%. It seems that shooting these higher % shots isn't helping him as much as you would have us believe.Now the one thing that stands out as the defining factor in this debate is winning. Since we are debating the CURRENT second best player, Wade's Last year performance's don't factor in. That being said look at the records. Miami are below .500 and Cleveland are well above it. Sure Shaq was out but even with him in the Heat were trounced by the Cavs in thier most recent outing against each other. Wade is a good player but he has lost something this year- Its like he has forgotten how to win?! LBJ has come to play he is hungrier, more confident and the Cavs are currently sitting in 3rd in the East. LBJ is winning Wade is not. THAT to me is the defineing factor.To summarise, Wade shoots closer to the basket but is still only hitting less than 50% of his shots. Wade hits a better FT% overall but thats a moot point if the FT's are in a loss. Besides LBJ hit them when they matter. LBJ has his team wining and Wade does not.That really should put the debate to bed. Thanks</div>You're putting words in my mouth man. I never said Wade was better than Bron because of free throws alone. It's just an aspect that comes out to me that Lebron needs to step up. If he would hit 10-15% better he'd be getting at least 4-5 more points a game which would help his team a lot.No, Brad Miller is not better than Shaq because of FT. Miller with all due respect is not even near Shaq's level of dominance or skill on the floor. Even if Miller shot 98% from the line he wouldn't be better than Shaq.Wade and Bron however are in the same level of skill of each other.Bad, bad comparison.A MEASLY 48%? That is excellent for a wing player. Kevin Garnett, a player who's game is mostly inside shoots 47%. Jermaine O'Neal, same player, 44%. If Wade is measly, these guys shouldn't even be in the NBA. What are you talking about? And for the record, stop making up stats. Wade is shooting 49.2%. Not 48%. If you're gonna attack his stats, be accurate with them.To compare that the Cavs are winning, and the Heat are losing makes Lebron a better player is a bad stat right now.The Heat have been a mess this year. Shaq has been out 75% of the games this year, Walker, Payton, Posey, and many others have had injuries to boot. The Heat have to deal with a new coach with Riley's absence. Meanwhile the Cavs are running at full health. Sure, the Cavs won last game. The Pistons got blown out against the Warriors 111-79. Does that game make the Warriors better than the Pistons?No way. You can't compare things on one game.Do you have an exact stat that shows that Lebron is more clutch at free throws than Wade? If not, you're just guessing. Also, if Lebron would have hit his FT's before, he wouldn't have to make them at the end because the game would have been over. Last minute free throws aren't the only ones that count.
OK as far as Wades fg% goes I apologise I read his career stats line- 48.4 not this year. Apolagies. I was obviously exaggerating as were you about the % but my point was obvious- pretty much the only thing you used to back up your argument was ft's. I was exaggerating to prove that that was a useless point. KG JO shouldn't be in the NBA? hahahahahah goods one You can make excuses for every team losing! the Cavs have had alot of player missing games too. Larry Hughes out for 11 David Wesley for 23 Scott Pollard out for most of the year Drew Gooden missed 2 The Cavs's running at full health? now who's making up stats? Dont make excuses! Lebron has had to carry his team just as much as Wade and LBJ is winning. No! But that game was an exclamation point on the Heat and Wade's year, compared to Bron and the Cav's No I don't have exact stats, just the experience of watching many many Cavs games so more like an educated guess! and LBJ mostly hits his 4th quarter FT's Of course last minute free throws aren't the only ones that count they do however have a lot more emphasis and pressure on them. LeBron like the champion he is lifts his game here.Aside from the things I have mentioned Lebron is a far better jump shooter-especially 3pt. Sure Wade gets in the lane and gets FT's or close shots, but that's not exactly working for him as his team is losing. If he cold knock down an outside shot his big men would have more room to work in and a better chance at getting open and making more baskets and you guessed it they might win more. Its all well and good for him to score in bunches but if they way he's doing it isn't helpeing his team-mates then whats the point?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clangus @ Feb 10 2007, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OK as far as Wades fg% goes I apologise I read his career stats line- 48.4 not this year. Apolagies.I was obviously exaggerating as were you about the % but my point was obvious- pretty much the only thing you used to back up your argument was ft's. I was exaggerating to prove that that was a useless point.KG JO shouldn't be in the NBA? hahahahahah goods oneYou can make excuses for every team losing! the Cavs have had alot of player missing games too. Larry Hughes out for 11 David Wesley for 23 Scott Pollard out for most of the year Drew Gooden missed 2 The Cavs's running at full health? now who's making up stats? Dont make excuses! Lebron has had to carry his team just as much as Wade and LBJ is winning. No! But that game was an exclamation point on the Heat and Wade's year, compared to Bron and the Cav'sNo I don't have exact stats, just the experience of watching many many Cavs games so more like an educated guess! and LBJ mostly hits his 4th quarter FT'sOf course last minute free throws aren't the only ones that count they do however have a lot more emphasis and pressure on them. LeBron like the champion he is lifts his game here.Aside from the things I have mentioned Lebron is a far better jump shooter-especially 3pt. Sure Wade gets in the lane and gets FT's or close shots, but that's not exactly working for him as his team is losing. If he cold knock down an outside shot his big men would have more room to work in and a better chance at getting open and making more baskets and you guessed it they might win more. Its all well and good for him to score in bunches but if they way he's doing it isn't helpeing his team-mates then whats the point?</div>Ok, it's all good. Mistakes happen.1. It wasn't the basis of my argument, just clearing that up.2. Free throws aren't useless, as I speak from experience. I had a basketball game today, I went 0-6 from the line. We lost by 3 points. If I would have just hit 4 of those we would have had a chance.About the JO and KG comment, you said that Wade was shooting a MEASLY (as in bad) field goal percentage at 49%. Garnett's and JO's are a lot lower. What does that make their %? Please. If you're going to tell me David Wesley and Scot Pollard, guys who don't even crack the rotation most of the time, are as crucial to the Cavs as Shaq, Payton, Posey, and Walker?Hughes I'll give it to you, but like I said he's not as important to the Cavs as Shaq is to the Heat. Gooden was only out for 2 games. Big deal. Wade had to play with guys who went undrafted for heavens sake, because most of the team was out.To say Lebron is this outside shot juggernaut is way off base. Wade is shooting 26% from behind the arc, Lebron 33%. They both suck.And if Wade isn't helping his teammates, what else can he do?He scores 28 a game, and dishes out 8. Both more than Lebron. He is the leader on the floor and their go to guy in the clutch, and he gets it done. I know. I unfortunately witnessed it last playoffs.
Yes all free throw matter, Its just the ones in crunch time have (rightly or wrongly) have alot more pressure on them. Champions excel in those pressure situations where other falter. LBJ lifts when the pressure is high. David Wesley and Scott Pollard WOULD be cracking the rotation and be integral part of the team if they were Healthy. Payton and Walker while they have the big names they certainly not the players they once were. These days they are nothing more than solid role players. So the only difference in the players not there really is Shaq V Hughes. I will give you that- but I will say that Shaq is not the old Shaq and doesn't dominate as much as he used to. I didn't say juggernaught but you have to admit he is almost 10% better than Wade here. Opponents at least have to gaurd him out there Wade- they dont really need to bother! As far as Wade helping his team-mates and "what else can he do? Well its not always about the stats! Look at Kobe and the Lakers! Kobe led all scorers and the lakers limpoed into the playoffs- this year he has defered to his teammates and they are winning alot more. So averages really mean very little if you cant win.LBJ is more complete as I said before.More rebs than wade. Just behind him in pts, assists ant ft% but higher outside- this shows he has an inside-outside game. Wade has one game slash to the hoop and hope for a foul.
