If it's called it's a foul. But usually it isn't called. Every basketball play involves pushing and holding for bigs at every level. Arms are included in this. If you don't believe me, go to your local gym play a game of pickup or join a league. Then come back on the forums and speak about how it feels to have arms/elbows in your back as you're boxing out, only to have it not called as a foul. Happens in every NBA game you watch. Howard was more athletic and so much stronger than 95% of the players at his position. Both of those directly lead to his success. Regardless you're splitting hairs with me. As core strength is more important than arm strength.
I'm not trying to be condescending here, I'm just asking a question did you play at least JV (not sure if you played or what level you made it to) Basketball? It really doesn't seem like you know what you're talking about. Because there is so much use of upper body strength in basketball and SO MUCH contact that is not illegal. I'm not sure what you know but all contact is not a foul. There's plenty of pushing that is not a foul that you simply don't put a whistle on. Many times a referee will say "hands off","stop pushing", or something like "get your hand out his back". Typically the player complies and there is no foul called. This happens at least 50% of the game. It's called pre-reffing. You tell a kid what to do so you don't have to put a whistle on his contact. So, you are completely wrong when you say that weight training is wasted on basketball. It takes upper body strength to get a shot up with contact. Lots of upper body strength is used to gain and keep position in the post. Upper body strength is key for hanging onto rebounds. What if someone guarding you, while holding the ball and without a dribble, attempts to snatch the ball out of your hand? No upper body strength = turnover. Then you cite the some of the great players for their body types . Well you need to understand also that that was back in the sixties seventies and eighties. We didn't have weight training programs like we do today. So again I'm not trying to be an ass but you're not making sense. But if you think these cats weren't doing bench presses: I'd say that you're speaking from conjecture and that you're sadly mistaken. Are you seriously saying that upper body strength didn't help this man get as many rebounds as he did? Did arm strength help this guy? I strongly disagree with your sentiment.
Ok, Mr. Referee man, when can you shove a player utilizing your shoulders and triceps, or when can you grab a player and pull themplayer towards you, utilizing the power you've gained by pumping your biceps? I never said that "all contact was a foul", but you don't need powerful arms for the type of legal upper body contact that takes place in basketball. And stating that they didn't emphasize weight training programs in the 60s through 80s does not support your point. That explains WHY that were not as muscular, but does not support the idea that they were less effective on the court because of it. So your argument makes no sense. The big men of the 80s were much better than they are today. You think Jabbar would be any less effective because he didn't have jacked arms?
There's natural strength and there's weight room strength. It's clear which side of the equation Nurk is on. Much of it is genetic. Just look at pictures of his dad. If you didn't have a sense of scale, you'd think he's some frumpy old guy, not a 400 lb bad ass. Nurk has a bit of the Danny Manning physique, where it defies reason that there's any strength there. The only real advantage to him adding muscle mass is intimidation.
He had muscular arms, that doesn't prove his success was due to having muscular arms. He actually put up a lot of jump shots. McHale is one of the best post men ever, and he had no muscular tone. It's about skill, footwork, length....
I'm not talking about unofficiated games. I've seen guys try to get away with pushing underneath to get position for a rebound, and it's just a nudge, a lot of times when the player is already moving in the position of the nudge or is in the air. You don't need weight room strength for that. If you used extreme force the refs will almost always catch you. Nor do you need it to stick out your forearm and hold position. I'm not splitting hairs, because this thread was about Nurkic going to the weight room, citing his arms didn't look muscular. If he got jacked arms, how would that make him better?
I didn't read shit after this Don't fucking condescend me when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Dviss, look at the battles that took place between a young Jabbar and Wilt Chamberlin. Wilt Chamberlin did work out and was immensely powerful. Jabbar had noddle limbs, and yet, Jabbar got the better of him down low. How do you explain that? You're whole argument about there being legal upper body contact isn't relevant. It's not at the level that requires weight training.
You don't know what you're talking about. You're making very poor use of logic and reason. Look at the video I posted Jabbar vs Chamberlin, it's a perfect example.
Also, your debate style leaves something to be desired. You create a straw man and then ask us to argue against it. Nobody saying Nurk needs to go and get "jacked up" arms. We simply said he needed to tone up. But you're acting like having jacked up arms is a detriment. It's not.
Well, a basketball weighs 22 ounces, so I think he'd have been able to handle it without those huge arms. You know I could show you a long list of players with less muscle that were much better rebounders than this guy.
No it's not, my response is right on point. Does Nurk need to spend more time in the weight room? What evidence have we seen that that would benefit him? Is he getting pushed around in the post? Why put time and energy into trying to get arms like Dwight Howard? Dwight Howard is not as good as Nurk is at this point in his career. A lot of great MMA fighters are cutting back on the weight training, because they realize it's the functional skill and movement of the sport that gets them more benefit, and that's fighting, how much more true would that be in basketball?
I've always felt that the Blazers should incorporate tai chi into their strength/conditioning program. I think it would be great for everyone, but especially someone like Nurk. Imagine someone that big, who knows how to move people without using his strength!
Yeah, I agree with this - strength isn't an issue. Conditioning is. I also agree with MM - footwork is more important than adding strength.
