<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cavsrules @ Feb 24 2007, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyway, don't get me wrong, Wade is doing better state wise this season. If u wanna give him #2 in the NBA, go right ahead. But I for one always look at how the teams are doing, and last time I checked, Cleveland is by far has the better record.</div>Umm, which player has the ring? And as I showed you in the post above the one where you replied to CB4, I showed that Wade has carried his team to a 54% winning percentage when he plays compared to Bron's 57%. Wade';s team is 1-7 without him compared to Bron's team which is 2-0 without him. I showed you all the problems the Heat have had this year, where Cleveland has been scrape-free.
this No, you weren't giving Wade credit. You were trying to downplay his Finals performance, and that is just ridiculous. And it's not just Shaq. Jason Williams has also missed alot of time this year.....And without Shaq, who is going to be their consistent second option? I don't see what you're getting at. You're just trying to prove that Wade has a bad supporting cast, which is hypocritcal because you said earlier that Dwyane has a great supporting cast. Well, in the regular season he doesn't. Because Shaq routinely gets injured, and he has to carry the load with a bunch of old, washed up players like Walker and Gary Payton. The key word is almost here. Why the hell do you even bother using this in your debate if the Cavs never beat the Pistons? The Heat on the other hand, ACTUALLY DID beat the Pistons. Do I do not know why you are using this in your debate. And the Pistons did play like crap. Yeah, it's true. The first game, the Pistons managed to put up a measly 72 points. And that wasn't because of the Cavs defense. A team like the Pistons should be able to put up more than 72 points no matter who they're playing. The second game they scored 77, and the 3rd game they scored 84. How come they were magically able to scre 113 and 97 in the first two games? You got it. Their offense just sucked in the games that the Cavs won. Yeah, but their offense was complete sh*t in the games you won....Yeah...you could use that excuse, but the difference is that Wade DID beat the Wester Conference Champs by himself. It's true. I have seen the Cavs play this season. Do you want to know why Lebron gets so many And1's? If there is even a bit of contact near the rim, he gets rewarded with a foul call and he gets to go to the line. Wade and Lebron BOTH get star treatment. Okay, now you are just spazzing. Yeah, you are. It's obvious that Wade is better, because he is better in almost all of the most important facets of the game. But since you routinely bust a nut to Lebron James, you are saying he's better. We're talking about who is better THIS season. And the Heat definately would have made it in (even after they were missing Shaq and J-Will virtually the entire time) if Wade had not dislocated his shoulder. And the Heat might still make it. They're in the East, so anything can happen. Alright. Give Lebron this year's Miami Heat and see how he does. He woluld not do any better than Wade. I'll telly you that much. Look at this fucken website. Are you kidding me? The second option is f*cking Jason Kapono (who only averages 11). Give me any other team in the League who's second option averages only 11 ppg. That is ridiculous. It's a miracle that Wade even has them in the playoffs currently. Do you know how bad their offense would be without Wade? We're debating, of course I'm not going to agree with you Yeah, how come your name used to be Larry Hughes if you hate the guy so much? Lebron has Anderson Varejao (hustle player of the year), Drew Gooden, Big Z, Larry Hughes, etc...Do you want to know the 2nd and 3rd options Wade had? Jason Kapono and freaking Udonis Haslem. Wade had NO supporting cast. Good thing you aren't a GM then buddy. Gary Payton is f*cking 60 years old, and newsflash, he hasn't been able to play defense since the 20th century. Drew Gooden is a great rebounder, he is strong and vicous in the paint also. Okay, Z is a good Center in this League. Last year he got 14 a game. This year he is sort've declining, but he is still a potent center. He has good touch around the rim for the various hooks and floaters he throws up there. He gets tip ins, rebounds, etc...He's a solid Center.Yeah, the Cavs are 5th in opposing ppgs, so I don't know why you are complaining about his defense? Who cares when you are only giving up 93 points a game? How the teams are doing. That's f*cking ridiculous. Wade's sidekicks have been Jason Kapono, Undonis Haslem and Antoine Walker. His second option averages only 11 ppg. How the F*ck do you expect Wade to carry that Heat team any farther than the 8th seed? When you are comparing players, you can't look at their teams when one players team just simply f*cking SUCKS. Wade has the f*cking shittiest offensive sidekicks in NBA history. Why are you looking at their teams? You are f*cking ridiculous, man....If you want to look at teams, Wade won the f*cking NBA championship when everyone was healthy. How's that for carrying a team?
[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296168' date='Feb 24 2007, 08:13 AM']thisNo, you weren't giving Wade credit. You were trying to downplay his Finals performance, and that is just ridiculous. And it's not just Shaq. Jason Williams has also missed alot of time this year[b/].....And without Shaq, who is going to be their consistent second option? I don't see what you're getting at. You're just trying to prove that Wade has a bad supporting cast, which is hypocritcal because you said earlier that Dwyane has a great supporting cast. Well, in the regular season he doesn't. Because Shaq routinely gets injured, and he has to carry the load with a bunch of old, washed up players like Walker and Gary Payton.The key word is almost here. Why the hell do you even bother using this in your debate if the Cavs never beat the Pistons? The Heat on the other hand, ACTUALLY DID beat the Pistons. Do I do not know why you are using this in your debate. And the Pistons did play like crap. Yeah, it's true. The first game, the Pistons managed to put up a measly 72 points. And that wasn't because of the Cavs defense. A team like the Pistons should be able to put up more than 72 points no matter who they're playing. The second game they scored 77, and the 3rd game they scored 84. How come they were magically able to scre 113 and 97 in the first two games? You got it. Their offense just sucked in the games that the Cavs won. Yeah, but their offense was complete sh*t in the games you won....Yeah...you could use that excuse, but the difference is that Wade DID beat the Wester Conference Champs by himself.[/quote]Didn't you bash him a Lil bit ago in this thread? Didn't you say he didn't matter? Yeah, wanna say I'm being hyporitcal, when you doing the same thing. I gave Wade props, the sad part is, this guy is a favorite of mine, and your making me sound like the bad guy here. The Heat beat the Pistons, and if u wanna really go deep with this bad play, go back and check how Flip Murray did in the playoffs. Oh Yeah, I forgot, game 6 he single handedly beat his own team, by going 1-12(I believe) and handing the final rebound to Billups so the we didn't have a chances to win the game. The guy cost us the game, and then the round. Don't give credit to the Cavaliers, no one else does, so it shouldn't matter. And how in the world did Wade beat the f*cking Mavs by himself? Tell me how? Like I said, having Shaq on the damn floor was big enough to make Eric Snow a better offense player.[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296168' date='Feb 24 2007, 08:13 AM']It's true. I have seen the Cavs play this season. Do you want to know why Lebron gets so many And1's?[/quote]You want 'And Ones'? Here is one, not called of course.... http://youtube.com/watch?v=baXnhJQlajY oh yeah, here is Wade, getting some calls... http://youtube.com/watch?v=aySGUzzxjGE [quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296168' date='Feb 24 2007, 08:13 AM']If there is even a bit of contact near the rim, he gets rewarded with a foul call and he gets to go to the line. Wade and Lebron BOTH get star treatment. Okay, now you are just spazzing. Yeah, you are. It's obvious that Wade is better, because he is better in almost all of the most important facets of the game. But since you routinely bust a nut to Lebron James, you are saying he's better. We're talking about who is better THIS season. And the Heat definately would have made it in (even after they were missing Shaq and J-Will virtually the entire time) if Wade had not dislocated his shoulder. And the Heat might still make it.[/quote]Of course they get star treatment, all of the stars do, but if your gonna disagree that Wade doesn't get more then any everyone else, then your just full of it. I don't wanna hear bull sh*t about it is really foul. Because the fact is, if they would call the game like they do for Wade type of players, the games would be boring because the players would be at the line so much. It's pathetic the kinda calls he gets, and then you got the nerve to say James and Wade get the share amount of calls, when that isn't true at all.[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296168' date='Feb 24 2007, 08:13 AM']They're in the East, so anything can happen. Alright. Give Lebron this year's Miami Heat and see how he does. He woluld not do any better than Wade. I'll telly you that much. Look at this fucken website. Are you kidding me? The second option is f*cking Jason Kapono (who only averages 11).[/quote]Isn't that the guy that won the 3 point shoot out? The same guy leading the NBA in 3's? I'm not taking anything away from Wade, he is a great player, and top 5 in the league for sure. I'm trying to just prove the point, he can't take that team anywhere, and without Shaq the team is nothing. I just love watching TNT and ESPN and they say the Bulls, and the Heat are the teams to beat in the East. When those two teams are not even in the top f*cking 3!!!!!!! There whole team has been down due to being hurt, of course there gonna be down, all your looking at his how many points this dude f*cking has, when the main part is the team, and how they are doing. Witch in this case, isn't very good.[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296168' date='Feb 24 2007, 08:13 AM']Yeah, how come your name used to be Larry Hughes if you hate the guy so much? Lebron has Anderson Varejao (hustle player of the year), Drew Gooden, Big Z, Larry Hughes, etc...Do you want to know the 2nd and 3rd options Wade had? Jason Kapono and freaking Udonis Haslem. Wade had NO supporting cast. Good thing you aren't a GM then buddy. Gary Payton is f*cking 60 years old, and newsflash, he hasn't been able to play defense since the 20th century. Drew Gooden is a great rebounder, he is strong and vicous in the paint also. Okay, Z is a good Center in this League. Last year he got 14 a game. This year he is sort've declining, but he is still a potent center. He has good touch around the rim for the various hooks and floaters he throws up there. He gets tip ins, rebounds, etc...He's a solid Center.[/quote]I love Larry Hughes, biggest fan since year one in Philly. All I'm saying is he takes terrible shots, and he is hurt a lot. And he was in the playoffs, and the Cavaliers didn't have there 2nd man. Witch LeBron had to do it all, and witch he went threw a battle with the Pistons to 7 games. Oh snap, they didn't play well, so, uh, Yeah, the Cavs, uh, don't get any credit, because, uhhh, they didn't score, uh, 100 points, and uh, they played bad in all the games they lost, uh, so, uh Yeah. Sorry bro, just had to do it, I laugh at the fact Cleveland gets no respect. I love how you forget about James Posey, didn't the guy used to be a go to go in college? I remember it, I believe it was college, but none the less, he still can score. Gary Peyton still has some left in the tank, may not be a lot to give that much, but he does have some. Zo is awesome on defense, he is a big help, IMO. I would trade Drew Gooden to get Zo on my team, no doubt. I can't stand Gooden, he plays no defense what so ever, thats why he is always on the bench, unless we got a 20 point lead.[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296168' date='Feb 24 2007, 08:13 AM']Yeah, the Cavs are 5th in opposing ppgs, so I don't know why you are complaining about his defense? Who cares when you are only giving up 93 points a game? How the teams are doing. That's f*cking ridiculous. Wade's sidekicks have been Jason Kapono, Undonis Haslem and Antoine Walker. His second option averages only 11 ppg. How the F*ck do you expect Wade to carry that Heat team any farther than the 8th seed? When you are comparing players, you can't look at their teams when one players team just simply f*cking SUCKS. Wade has the f*cking shittiest offensive sidekicks in NBA history. Why are you looking at their teams? You are f*cking ridiculous, man....If you want to look at teams, Wade won the f*cking NBA championship when everyone was healthy. How's that for carrying a team?[/quote]Drew Gooden only plays like 15 MPG, thats why we don't give up more then 93 a game. Wade didn't bring the team to the 8th seed, until Shaq got back. Wade felt like LeBron did last season, but Wade is just getting more credit, for what reason? Oh Yeah, he is in Miami and not Cleveland, so he gets a lot of credit for just whipping his ass. When his team is 100%, Wade has one of the best cast in the NBA. I laughed at the fact Wade had more Free Throws then the Mavs did in the Heats game 4 I believe, Might of been five too. The damn guy shoots so many free bees, I can't keep track.Talking about this year? I'll take Wade, but if you want all around better player, I'll take LeBron. But let me guess, you will just go off on me because it's what I think, and IMO I would rather have James on my team. Thats cool, sorry I don't agree with you, but that is just what I think, and I would do.
And, isn't this the same dude that couldn't pick between KOBE BRYANT AND LEBRON JAMES???<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Feb 14 2006, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron isnt able to take over games?? Lebron actually, I would say is the more skilled scorer. Kobe takes way too many shots a game and that's why his ppg is up. Lebron has a .484 fg% and is only a few ppg off of Kobe so I have reason to believe that if they if Lebron shot more he would be alongside Kobe for the scoring title.Lebron is the better rebounder and passer. Please don't bring championships into this debate as Kobe never led his team to the championship. Shaq did. Kobe is more clutch but Lebron is still very young and it is hard for him to develop the clutch factor at such a young age. I don't know who I would pick. Very hard decision.</div>Now your saying James ain't even #2? Eh, I don't get you man. Well, Unless you just go by years. Even tho after avg 31 PPG, and going down to 27 PPG, isn't bad. I mean after all, he got Hughes back from being hurt, and he takes a lot of shots. Last two games he has taken 60...
huh? When did I say that? Show me. Jason Williams is a solid PG. Yeah, true. Lebron's supporting cast did suck vs. the Pistons. But the Pistons also sucked in that series. If the Cavs got to play a team like the Mavs, they would be done in 5 games tops... Uh...because he averaged f*cking 34 ppg in that series. What did Shaq average? 14....That is way below Shaq's average. Wade carried that team past the Mavs. Eric Snow could not have put up 34 ppg even if he was playing with Jesus. Any average player can not put up 34 a game in the NBA Finals. I don't really care who they're playing with. Do I honestly care? You are showing me one play where Lebron didn't get a call. I'm sure Dwyane has had no calls as well. Big whoop. Nah...I just think Dwyane's star treatment gets blown up because of the way he attacked the rims in the Finals. The refs were forced to make the calls, and that gets blown up by the media. Lebron gets a ton of star treatment too. It's just less controversial than Wade's because Wade played in the NBA Finals, and Lebron didn't. Jason Kapono is a good shooter, nothing else. He doesn't have any other skills. No other ways to score. It's ridiculous that he's a second option on the Heat. He's a career role player shooter. Wade can't lead that team anywhere because the offense is absolutely dreadful without J-Will and Shaq. Lebron couldn't lead that team either. Dude, its not only points. Dwyane is the better defender and passer as well. It is so f*cking unfair to incluse the Heat in this debate. And I don't understnad why you continue to do it. Dwyane has no f*cking supporting cast at all. It's not his fault that the Heat are only an 8th seed, and it doesn't take anything away from him as a player. The team he's on just sucks. It is sumb of you to use the Heat in your debate. Yeah, but he is still a good player to have on a team. He is quick, and he can get inside. He may have an inconsistent shot, but sometimes it is on. His defense is also good for a guard. He's great at getting steals. Lebron's 3rd and 4th men are still better options than Dwyane's second man. Stop whining and complaining about that. That's what Dwyane has gone through every day of this season. James Posey? Okay...the guy is an all around solid player. He's a good defender, but his offense is limited in a way. Again, all he excels at is shooting. He's averaging 7 a game this year... Gary Payton is now a below average backup PG. He is smart, but his skills are limited now. He can't shoot, and he is alot slower now. Yeah, Dwyane has some good defensive players around him. So does Lebron. But Dwyane has ZERO offensive help. His 2nd option is f*cking Jason Kapono. Actually, Drew Gooden plays 28 mpg, so you were abit off on that one. Actually, the Heat were 19-21 before Shaq came back, which was probably good for the 8th seed in the East. So they were still right around that mark before Shaq returned. And the Heat were about to surge until Wsde got injured. I bet you that they would have probably ended up winning their division if Wade hadn't dislocated his shoulder. Actually, Lebron had alot more help last year than what Wsde has this year. Lebron had Larry Hughes (good for 14 a game), Big Z (14 and 8), Drew Gooden's 12-13 or so.....Wade's second option is a guy who only averages 11 ppg. So you are incorrect. Lebron had alot more offensive help than what Wade has this season. Not really. Shaq is only getting 14 a game this season. All his teammates are old...Jason Williams is just average too....So Wade has a better supporting cast than the Steve Nash on the Suns? Come on....I could probably name 10 teams with better supporting casts..That doesn't make sense. You said that you'd take Wade this year, but that Lebron is an all around better player. Huge contradiction there. And that doesn't make any sense. Lebron is definately not the all around better player. Wade is better at passing, scoring, driving, and defense...
well well well LeBron and Wade are best players in the NBA beihnd kobe of course just look at wades team and Lebron Z and Hughes doing nothin so far hughes in areally bad season very bad james doing every thing alone alil help from gooden and alxander last few games but Yeah miami players are better than cleveland this year and thats why wade has more assits and also lebron is SF and Wade SG somtimes PG and LEbron is much better shoter than wade wade faster leborn stronger blah blah blah u cant say whos better because both are best and lerbon is better at things and wade at other things....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grass @ Feb 24 2007, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>well well well LeBron and Wade are best players in the NBA beihnd kobe of course</div>You forgot 2 players. Dirk and Nash. Whether you like it or not they are better than those 3 you mentioned this year.
lmfao Dirk? dirk in top 5 but wade and james better maybe nash hmmm Yeah nash better but james and wade are better than him in other things so I would take them over nash put nash in cleveland he will suck...and duncna better than dirk I know dirk average 26 PPG but wait he playing more than 38 mins per game duncan 34 why watch for SASand u will find out and duncan better inside scorer better big man at all
[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296266' date='Feb 24 2007, 10:39 AM']huh? When did I say that? Show me. Jason Williams is a solid PG. Yeah, true. Lebron's supporting cast did suck vs. the Pistons. But the Pistons also sucked in that series. If the Cavs got to play a team like the Mavs, they would be done in 5 games tops... Uh...because he averaged f*cking 34 ppg in that series. What did Shaq average? 14....That is way below Shaq's average. Wade carried that team past the Mavs. Eric Snow could not have put up 34 ppg even if he was playing with Jesus. Any average player can not put up 34 a game in the NBA Finals. I don't really care who they're playing with.[/quote]You said some kinda sh*t that he has Williams and laughed at it. So your just gonna say the Pistons didn't play good? No credit at all to Cleveland? Wow, just wow. You don't understand, having a guy like Shaq there is good enough. It doesn't matter how many points the guy has, him being there makes the defense cover him tougher then any center in the league. How do u not understand this man? Sure he avg 34 PPG, u said that like 10 times already, gotta anything else besides his f*cking points? Jeez. And who said anything about Snow? LMFAO, Snow can't score to save his life![quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296266' date='Feb 24 2007, 10:39 AM']Do I honestly care? You are showing me one play where Lebron didn't get a call. I'm sure Dwyane has had no calls as well. Big whoop.[/quote]I didn't ask if you cared, I was just showing some bull sh*t plays. Thats how Wade makes the NBA untouchable, and thats how LeBron takes the pain for being on the Cavaliers, in Cleveland. If that was Wade in the Air, it would of been a and one, and Zo would of been tossed.[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296266' date='Feb 24 2007, 10:39 AM']Nah...I just think Dwyane's star treatment gets blown up because of the way he attacked the rims in the Finals. The refs were forced to make the calls, and that gets blown up by the media. Lebron gets a ton of star treatment too. It's just less controversial than Wade's because Wade played in the NBA Finals, and Lebron didn't.[/quote]True, but that brings it to everyones eyes, Wade shot more Free Throws then a whole team? That is hard to do, and he has done it more then once, and a few times already this season. What is the record for most Free Throws in a season? If it isn't held by Wade yet, I'm sure he will have it soon.[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296266' date='Feb 24 2007, 10:39 AM']Jason Kapono is a good shooter, nothing else. He doesn't have any other skills. No other ways to score. It's ridiculous that he's a second option on the Heat. He's a career role player shooter. Wade can't lead that team anywhere because the offense is absolutely dreadful without J-Will and Shaq. Lebron couldn't lead that team either. Dude, its not only points. Dwyane is the better defender and passer as well. It is so f*cking unfair to incluse the Heat in this debate. And I don't understnad why you continue to do it. Dwyane has no f*cking supporting cast at all. It's not his fault that the Heat are only an 8th seed, and it doesn't take anything away from him as a player. The team he's on just sucks. It is sumb of you to use the Heat in your debate.[/quote]What are you talking about? 'Sumb' to use the players f*cking team? Are you kidding me, man? Thats all that matters to me, is what is going on with the team. If that players can't lead there team to at least above 500, then how the hell are they as good as you make them out to be? You keep thinking I am taking sh*t away from Wade, when I am in by no means at all doing so. Wade is a outstanding player, and one of my favorites as I said before, but I would rather have LeBron James, on my team. His team is good, they have had a lot of players go down because of being hurt and all, so Wade has to take more shots, that means he is gonna avg more points. Sure he is doing so, but he isn't winning ball games. You can say James has better players on his team, but that is just not true at all. Hughes isn't fitting in well with the Cavaliers so far, and is taking to many shots(gives those to LeBron and he would avg 30+)[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296266' date='Feb 24 2007, 10:39 AM']Yeah, Dwyane has some good defensive players around him. So does Lebron. But Dwyane has ZERO offensive help. His 2nd option is f*cking Jason Kapono.[/quote]Witch is a pretty good shooter, and with there full team in the game at 100%, he would avg much more, and he will get a ton of more open looks. Shaq has gone down and the Heat couldn't get above 500.[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296266' date='Feb 24 2007, 10:39 AM']Actually, Drew Gooden plays 28 mpg, so you were abit off on that one. Actually, the Heat were 19-21 before Shaq came back, which was probably good for the 8th seed in the East. So they were still right around that mark before Shaq returned.[/quote]Drew Gooden hasn't played 20+ in a while, he hasn't been playing, and we have won the last 5 of the last 7 games. I remember the playoff seed before Shaq came back, they were 9th in the East, but only I believe, 2 games out of the 8th seed. Witch they got when Shaq came back.[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296266' date='Feb 24 2007, 10:39 AM']And the Heat were about to surge until Wsde got injured. I bet you that they would have probably ended up winning their division if Wade hadn't dislocated his shoulder. Actually, Lebron had alot more help last year than what Wsde has this year. Lebron had Larry Hughes (good for 14 a game), Big Z (14 and 8), Drew Gooden's 12-13 or so.....Wade's second option is a guy who only averages 11 ppg.[/quote]For real, is that ALL YOU LOOK AT? Is f*cking points? Do you see these guy play? Do you know how many shots it takes Hughes to get 14 a game? He has shot 60 times in the pass two games. For a avg of 14 PPG. Gooden is good on the offense end, but we use him in the wrong way, and we started to use him kinda right the start of this season, but that has died out. Gooden is no longer any use. I am willing to trade him for a f*cking 2nd rounder, or even Zo, since he isn't doing anything for the Heat, correct?[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='296266' date='Feb 24 2007, 10:39 AM']That doesn't make sense. You said that you'd take Wade this year, but that Lebron is an all around better player. Huge contradiction there. And that doesn't make any sense. Lebron is definately not the all around better player. Wade is better at passing, scoring, driving, and defense...[/quote]Oh, it doesn't make sense? So you can say its a tough call Kobe or LeBron, but now I don't make sense when I say James is an over all better player then Wade, but Wade is having a better season 'stat' wise....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 24 2007, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You forgot 2 players. Dirk and Nash. Whether you like it or not they are better than those 3 you mentioned this year.</div>I tend to agree, to a point anyway. Dirk is having a great season, as he is leading the Mavs to the best record in the NBA. And Nash is doing his thing as we all know the Suns are amazing with him at 100%. I honestly want to see in the playoffs Dallas vs. the Suns, should be a great one.
They are both inconsistent in the fact that they go on big game streaks and then back to average or below. I can't pick right now because of this, but as a player, I prefer lebron much more than wade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grass @ Feb 24 2007, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>lmfao Dirk? dirk in top 5 but wade and james better maybe nash hmmm Yeah nash better but james and wade are better than him in other things so I would take them over nash put nash in cleveland he will suck...and duncna better than dirk I know dirk average 26 PPG but wait he playing more than 38 mins per game duncan 34 why watch for SASand u will find out and duncan better inside scorer better big man at all</div>Duncan is averaging 35 mins and dirk is at 36 mins. Dirk is so much better than duncan at passing, dribbling, shooting and scoring; if u don't want to use that as an example, just look at their team's records: Dal- 45-9 SAS- 37/18Over the last three games, dirk is averaging 31.7 ppg, 10 rpg, 5 apg, 1.3 spg, and 1.3 bpg on 57% field goals (most of which are 20+ foot fadeaways), 44% on 3s, and is 15/15 from the line.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 24 2007, 04:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Umm, which player has the ring? And as I showed you in the post above the one where you replied to CB4, I showed that Wade has carried his team to a 54% winning percentage when he plays compared to Bron's 57%. Wade';s team is 1-7 without him compared to Bron's team which is 2-0 without him. I showed you all the problems the Heat have had this year, where Cleveland has been scrape-free.</div> Throw winning percentage out the window. Wade has had Shaq to compliment him and a veteran supporting cast. LeBron's team is 2-0 without him? Who cares, it's only 2 games, who did they play in those 2 games? If they were 0-8 without him I would take that statistic seriously.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (41nowitzness41 @ Feb 24 2007, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Duncan is averaging 35 mins and dirk is at 36 mins. Dirk is so much better than duncan at passing, dribbling, shooting and scoring; if u don't want to use that as an example, just look at their team's records: Dal- 45-9 SAS- 37/18Over the last three games, dirk is averaging 31.7 ppg, 10 rpg, 5 apg, 1.3 spg, and 1.3 bpg on 57% field goals (most of which are 20+ foot fadeaways), 44% on 3s, and is 15/15 from the line.</div>First of all, Dirk is not a better passer than Duncan what so ever. If anything, Duncan is a better passer than he is. He is one of the best passing big men with his back to the basket in the entire NBA. And of course Dirk is better at dribbling, but does it even matter when we are talking about PF? You say he is a better dribbler, and I say that Duncan has better footwork and postmoves around the basket, which is more important for a big man anyways. And Dirk is a better scorer, but he only gets about 5 more a game. He is a better scorer, but I bet you anything he has more shot attempts a game than Duncan. Also, Duncan is a way better rebounder, a much better defender, and has the rings to back it up. I think Dirk is having a better season, but their isnt much difference talent wise between these players. Dont kid yourself.Back to topic though. I would take Lebron. He is a more versatile scorer, he is just as good if not better of a passer, he is a better rebounder, and they are both pretty bad defenders. It is pretty close between these two right now, but I will give the slight edge to Lebron.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Feb 24 2007, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First of all, Dirk is not a better passer than Duncan what so ever. If anything, Duncan is a better passer than he is. He is one of the best passing big men with his back to the basket in the entire NBA. And of course Dirk is better at dribbling, but does it even matter when we are talking about PF? You say he is a better dribbler, and I say that Duncan has better footwork and postmoves around the basket, which is more important for a big man anyways. And Dirk is a better scorer, but he only gets about 5 more a game. He is a better scorer, but I bet you anything he has more shot attempts a game than Duncan. Also, Duncan is a way better rebounder, a much better defender, and has the rings to back it up. I think Dirk is having a better season, but their isnt much difference talent wise between these players. Dont kid yourself.Back to topic though. I would take Lebron. He is a more versatile scorer, he is just as good if not better of a passer, he is a better rebounder, and they are both pretty bad defenders. It is pretty close between these two right now, but I will give the slight edge to Lebron.</div>Wade is the better passer, and he is not a bad defender...
I really dont think Wade is that much better of a passer if at all. He dominates the ball more on the offensive end, therefore has more of a chance to get more assits. But if we are going by straight passing ability, Lebron wow's me just as much as Wade does. Lebron has the ability to see over the defense much better IMO. I think Wade is a hell of a passer, but Lebron is as well.Yeah, Wade isnt that bad of a defender, but he is by no means a good defender IMO. He might be a slightly better defender than Lebron, but it is not by an extreme amount.
Wade is better - its not even a contest at this point. LeBron is missing more than a good point guard - I think he's missing the killer instinct that Wade has for the game. LeBron has never scored 17 pts by himself in one quarter to win a game - TWICE. LeBron hasn't won a Championship, either. I think Wade is by far better, not only by a measure of his talent - but by his experience. Wade has already been to the finals, he's lost against the Pistons for the Eastern Conference - and he's obviously won a title. All that experience gives Wade the edge of LeBron. When comparing talents - I still think Wade beats LeBron. At first, Wade wasn't really a good shooter - all he really could do was get to the paint. Well not only has Wade perfected his slashing, and mid-range shooting - but he's expanded his shooting range to the 3-pt arc. Despite how much I hate his knack for getting to the line - he does it; and thats what counts. Not only that, but Wade is clearly the better leader. He's had to deal with Shaq being out with injury many times - and alone he's had to lead his team to winning. He can't do it alone - but he's much better at it than LeBron is. Through the adversity he's gone through - he's learned how to lead his team, and encourage his team. Overall - Wade wins this comparison by a mile. LeBron is just LeBron - he hasn't taken the 'Jordan' initiative and carried his team on his back - thats what you have to do to be considered great like he wants to be known as.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 24 2007, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You forgot 2 players. Dirk and Nash. Whether you like it or not they are better than those 3 you mentioned this year.</div>Are you kidding me?Nash plays zero defense and his offense is blown up because of the system he is in (not trying to take away from him, but it is true). Dirk is not a great defender, and outside of jumpshooting and rebounding there is nothing he does that is better than Wade or LeBron. Outside of the fact that those 2 players are on the best teams in the league, there is no reason to say they are better than either Bron or Wade.ballerman-Wade is much better at setting the offense up and driving and kicking to the open man. Bron is flashier, but Wade does the job of playmaker better. And neither are good man to man defenders, but wade is arguably the best help defenders in the league. He is averaging about 2SPG and 1.5BPG. For a 6'4'' guard, that is very impressive, and if he makes an all defensive team this year that is why. And you forget that Wade is a F-A-R better clutch player, has more killer instinct, and has had way more playoff success. Yeah yeah, he has had Shaq, but Bron failed to get Cavs into playoffs in 04-05 after leading team to a 5th seed about halfway through the year, and last year had a bad series vs Pistons. Yes, you can say he did have a great series vs Wizards, but if they had called the travel in game 3 it would have been a totally different series. Wade has been absolutely amazing each year in playoffs, including the year he led Marquette to the Final 4.Cavsrule-You keep bringing up free throws and such in the Finals, but what about calls like this LeBron gets away with?http://youtube.com/watch?v=hH73R9GIbXgorhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=EGiBXYJiTF8 (this no-call basically won the series for the Cavs).Just goes back to what is aid before. Every superstar gets away with a lot of sh*t, just so happens with Wade more than others it's foul calls.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 25 2007, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you kidding me?Nash plays zero defense and his offense is blown up because of the system he is in (not trying to take away from him, but it is true). Dirk is not a great defender, and outside of jumpshooting and rebounding there is nothing he does that is better than Wade or LeBron. Outside of the fact that those 2 players are on the best teams in the league, there is no reason to say they are better than either Bron or Wade.ballerman-</div>Lebron and Wade don't play that much defense either. Nash's team can't run without him. Nash owns both Lebron and Wade when it comes to passing. Yeah Nash's one weakness is defense but the suns actually have been worse on defense when Nash was out. Strange. Lebron and Wade aren't known for their defense either and Lebron takes too many bad jumpshots. Nash and Dirk are what defines quality shooting and not quantity. Dirk has the rebounding edge over both of them as well. It's hard to go against these 2 players but somehow you disagree with it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 24 2007, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron and Wade don't play that much defense either. Nash's team can't run without him. Nash owns both Lebron and Wade when it comes to passing. Yeah Nash's one weakness is defense but the suns actually have been worse on defense when Nash was out. Strange.</div>Before Nash was with the Suns he never averaged more than 9APG. Before he arrived with the Suns he never shot above 49%. Since arriving with them he has shot over 50% each season. The system he is in and the players that around make his stas over-bloated and overrated.Both LeBron and wade play better man to man defense, and Wade is arguably the best help defender in the league. You say Nash's team can't run without him, yet Wade's team is 1-7 this year without him. And it's no secret why Suns defensive numbers are down when he's out. They play a much slower tempo, and that A) Slows down the scoring, and Allows teams to settle down and not play into the Suns' style. This allows for more quality shots and further exposing Suns defensive woes.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron takes too many bad jumpshots. Nash and Dirk are what defines quality shooting and not quantity.</div>He takes many bad jumpshots, but still has shot over 47% the past 3 seasons. Last year he shot a better % than Dirk, despite having far less players to take scoring load and pressure off of him.Give me a break. Wade shoots near 50%, and Bron is at 47%. Watch a Suns game, and you will see why nash shoots such a high %. With the players he has around him, teams can't collapse on him when he drives. That's why you see so many easy layup from him in a halfcourt offense. Take him off the Suns offense and he is shooting below Wade's average and around 15PPG. Dirk, while a great jumpshooter, is just that...a jumpshooter. Despite becoming more versatile as a scorer, he is still fairly one dimensional as a scorer. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Dirk has the rebounding edge over both of them as well. It's hard to go against these 2 players but somehow you disagree with it.</div>Dirk is 8 inches taller than Wade, and 4 inches taller than Bron. Wade/Bron play PG-SG-SF, while Dirk plays PF/C. You're really gonna use his RPG average over Wade/Bron?I don't even consider Dirk the best big man in the league, and Steve Nash is not in my top 5 players of the league. Not too hard to go against them, especially when you're comparing them to a person who is IMO a top 3 player in the league (Wade), and a player who is top 5 in league (Bron).
