God damnit nitro, go to my original post and see if I said Dirk has a better offensive game than Dirk. I am not freaking arguing that. And you are wrong about Dirks game. He DOES drive inside....You obviously dont watch him enough then. And he can shoot over just about every player that he plays agaisnt so you are wrong there too. Put T-Mac on him, and he can shoot over him. He might not be as good as going up agaisnt other people, but that is expected. And if you put a 7 footer on him, he can take them off the dribble and either go all the way to the basket or pull up....Gosh you are frustrating....You obviously didnt read my original post becasue I NEVER said that Dirk has a better offensive game than Kobe. I think Kobe's is better. I just dont think Dirk's offensive game is one dimensional like you said.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Feb 25 2007, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nitro, how can you say that he is a one-dimensional scorer? Sure, he takes alot of shots from the midrange, but he is a good 3 point shooter, he can go up with either hand, and he is great at getting his defender in the air and going to the hole. Sure, he is blessed by being able to shoot over the opposition because of his height, but he is not one dimensional at all....But I will agree with you that Kobe doesn't have any weaknesses as a scorer. He can do it all....</div>That is all I said in my original post. I never said Dirk was a better player, or had a better offensive game...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Feb 25 2007, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I got an idea, hold on.http://www.bball-world.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=24741</div>That link doesn't work...
Dirk isn't. Look at all the talent around him. He's a good player but not the best. If he was then the Mavs wouldn't of lost 4 straight games in the NBA Finals. Dirk isn't even the best post player in the league. I would take Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh, and Kevin Garnett over him. I guarantee you if they had guys like Josh Howard and Jason Terry, they would of been deep in the playoffs last year. Dirk has so much talent around him it makes him look better then he really is.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 24 2007, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wade yes and Lebron no. I'll bet the Heat don't make the playoffs. That is how valuable Wade is to the Heat.</div>Ya because the Lakers can win a ring without Kobe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Feb 25 2007, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ya because the Lakers can win a ring without Kobe.</div>I hope that was sarcasm
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Feb 25 2007, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I hope that was sarcasm</div>It probably wasn't and I agree with him. Kobe is just such a selfish player that I think he is taking away from his teammates abilities. I definitely believe that the Lakers can be a championship team without him. They have Phil Jackson, who won 9 championships, 6 without a selfish piece of crap like Kobe, so why couldn't he do it again? Bynum and Kwame can be a dominating duo at C and PF. Luke Walton is a great passing SF who can score. They have 3-point shooting with Vujacic and VladRad and nobody can stop the quickness of Smush. Add that to the great legends that the Lakers have had over the years and it's hard to believe that they couldn't win another one if they dump Kobe's gigantic contract soon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Feb 25 2007, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It probably wasn't and I agree with him. Kobe is just such a selfish player that I think he is taking away from his teammates abilities. I definitely believe that the Lakers can be a championship team without him. They have Phil Jackson, who won 9 championships, 6 without a selfish piece of crap like Kobe, so why couldn't he do it again? Bynum and Kwame can be a dominating duo at C and PF. Luke Walton is a great passing SF who can score. They have 3-point shooting with Vujacic and VladRad and nobody can stop the quickness of Smush. Add that to the great legends that the Lakers have had over the years and it's hard to believe that they couldn't win another one if they dump Kobe's gigantic contract soon.</div>I actually agree with you. Without Kobe they have all the pieces and he's just taking away from them. I mean Kobe has been trying to distribute the ball better this season but he's still making his teammates worse. Good post and it's nice to see your not afraid of getting bashed by everyone.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Feb 26 2007, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It probably wasn't and I agree with him. Kobe is just such a selfish player that I think he is taking away from his teammates abilities. I definitely believe that the Lakers can be a championship team without him. They have Phil Jackson, who won 9 championships, 6 without a selfish piece of crap like Kobe, so why couldn't he do it again? Bynum and Kwame can be a dominating duo at C and PF. Luke Walton is a great passing SF who can score. They have 3-point shooting with Vujacic and VladRad and nobody can stop the quickness of Smush. Add that to the great legends that the Lakers have had over the years and it's hard to believe that they couldn't win another one if they dump Kobe's gigantic contract soon.</div>I disagreeKobe has changed this season. He is carrying hsi team and is team captain and is the leader of this team. Smush is a horrible point guard. Bynum is foul prone type player along with Kwame. Both are inexpirienced. Luke Walton is a great passing for the triangle offense. Without Kobe IMO they would struggle to even manage to get 25 wins in a season. Injuries have killed us this season. Lamar was out, Vlad is out, Kwame was out, Mihm is out, Luke Walton is out, and Kobe is 80%. Kobe has carried this team 6 games above .500 mark.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Feb 25 2007, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I actually agree with you. Without Kobe they have all the pieces and he's just taking away from them. I mean Kobe has been trying to distribute the ball better this season but he's still making his teammates worse. Good post and it's nice to see your not afraid of getting bashed by everyone.</div>Thank you, I mean it's just so obvious and I'm just so confused as to why no one on this great message board has figured it out. Kobe doesn't distribute the ball as shown by how many turnovers he has. The amount of turnovers he gets from his failed passes gives the other team about 10 or 11 points which is about 40% of the points he scores! So I really think he is hurting this team. He always wants the ball and that takes away from the others and when he does try to pass it he gives it to the other team. He says he's passing more, but he only gets ONE more assist per game. That's only one more pass. He's probably trying to make himself look good by making his airballs seem like passes. He shot 43% two years ago so now he's trying to find an excuse for badly missed shots by saying he passes it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Feb 26 2007, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It probably wasn't and I agree with him. Kobe is just such a selfish player that I think he is taking away from his teammates abilities. I definitely believe that the Lakers can be a championship team without him. They have Phil Jackson, who won 9 championships, 6 without a selfish piece of crap like Kobe, so why couldn't he do it again? Bynum and Kwame can be a dominating duo at C and PF. Luke Walton is a great passing SF who can score. They have 3-point shooting with Vujacic and VladRad and nobody can stop the quickness of Smush. Add that to the great legends that the Lakers have had over the years and it's hard to believe that they couldn't win another one if they dump Kobe's gigantic contract soon.</div>Honestly, I don't even think you believe that yourself. Lakers making the playoffs without Kobe considering how competitive the west is? Not gonna happen.I do agree with you one thing do though ASU, Kobe does keep other players from improving. Kinda like AI when he was in Philly with Iggy, it wasn't really Iversons fault but now he has a chance to be the main focus of the team.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>God damnit nitro, go to my original post and see if I said Dirk has a better offensive game than Dirk. I am not freaking arguing that. And you are wrong about Dirks game. He DOES drive inside....You obviously dont watch him enough then. And he can shoot over just about every player that he plays agaisnt so you are wrong there too. Put T-Mac on him, and he can shoot over him. He might not be as good as going up agaisnt other people, but that is expected. And if you put a 7 footer on him, he can take them off the dribble and either go all the way to the basket or pull up....</div>I'll admit it here, I haven't watched Dirk much this season but from what I saw in the finals and last season, he wouldn't drive it in a whole lot. However, thanks to 82games amazing website, the stats show Dirk only averages 4 points from inside shots, and 3 points from close range shots. 14 of his 25 come from jumpshots, almost half basically. He is a great player and can cause huge matchup problems but I gotta agree with Nitro, if you can remove his jumpshot his percentages will go down and he will be forced to score from the line and by posting up.Either way, Dirk isn't better then Kobe at scoring so I don't see whats the point of really debating this.Edit: link to 82games stats in case your interested.http://www.82games.com/0607/06DAL12A.HTM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinoy Balla @ Feb 25 2007, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I disagreeKobe has changed this season. He is carrying hsi team and is team captain and is the leader of this team. Smush is a horrible point guard. Bynum is foul prone type player along with Kwame. Both are inexpirienced. Luke Walton is a great passing for the triangle offense. Without Kobe IMO they would struggle to even manage to get 25 wins in a season. Injuries have killed us this season. Lamar was out, Vlad is out, Kwame was out, Mihm is out, Luke Walton is out, and Kobe is 80%. Kobe has carried this team 6 games above .500 mark.</div>You are just being a biased Kobe fan, I'm telling you he's just no good for the team. If he didn't hog the ball so much then the brilliant mind of Phil Jackson and the added experience could improve Smush's play at the position, but he never gets a chance to make plays! Bynum and Kwame are still good players and the only way to get experience is to get the ball and make things happen. Walton is great at passing for their offense, which is what they play, exactly. If the whole team was healthy and they all got more of a chance to touch the ball the team would be much more productive.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinoy Balla @ Feb 25 2007, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I disagreeKobe has changed this season. He is carrying hsi team and is team captain and is the leader of this team. Smush is a horrible point guard. Bynum is foul prone type player along with Kwame. Both are inexpirienced. Luke Walton is a great passing for the triangle offense. Without Kobe IMO they would struggle to even manage to get 25 wins in a season. Injuries have killed us this season. Lamar was out, Vlad is out, Kwame was out, Mihm is out, Luke Walton is out, and Kobe is 80%. Kobe has carried this team 6 games above .500 mark.</div>Dude he was messing around :happy0144:
Heatfan, I didn't say they'd make the playoffs, I said they'd win the championship. They just have so much talent, but as a Suns fan I'm so glad that Kobe is stopping the players from playing up to their full potential, it's great. Without the other players getting the ball and the true teamwork coming into play, they will never achieve greatness. Now, if Kobe was traded to another team looking to get a quick fix and the Lakers got some quality team-oriented players back, I think they would win a championship next year with a great coach such as Phil Jackson.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Feb 25 2007, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Heatfan, I didn't say they'd make the playoffs, I said they'd win the championship. They just have so much talent, but as a Suns fan I'm so glad that Kobe is stopping the players from playing up to their full potential, it's great. Without the other players getting the ball and the true teamwork coming into play, they will never achieve greatness. Now, if Kobe was traded to another team looking to get a quick fix and the Lakers got some quality team-oriented players back, I think they would win a championship next year with a great coach such as Phil Jackson.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Feb 25 2007, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'></div>I'm serious, I have a ton of respect for the Laker organization and the elite players they have gotten together at this time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Feb 26 2007, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Heatfan, I didn't say they'd make the playoffs, I said they'd win the championship. They just have so much talent, but as a Suns fan I'm so glad that Kobe is stopping the players from playing up to their full potential, it's great. Without the other players getting the ball and the true teamwork coming into play, they will never achieve greatness. Now, if Kobe was traded to another team looking to get a quick fix and the Lakers got some quality team-oriented players back, I think they would win a championship next year with a great coach such as Phil Jackson.</div>The Lakers have talent like the Celtics but with a much better coach. Without a couple of star players or great ones though, I don't even see them making the playoffs. If you remove Kobe from the roster for the next two years, they will most likely struggle and have lottery picks. Like I said though, I do sometimes believe Kobe is stopping other players from reaching their potential but at the same time, he is winning games. In such a city like LA, the fans don't wanna see a bad team.
