Politics Democrats vent but can't stop Trump from leaving Paris climate agreement

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Jun 1, 2017.

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  1. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I expect. Ha! just as well.
     
    MarAzul, Jun 2, 2017
    #141
  2. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    a century ago there were only 2000 miles of paved road in the country...many thought the automobile made no fiscal sense then either...the grid needs upgraded and you'll see improvement in green energy distribution. I'm happy with my solar investment and may go completely off the grid in a few years
     
    riverman, Jun 2, 2017
    #142
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  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    For just the cost of the panel alone, your break-even is 6+ years. If you had labor cost equal to the cost of the equipment (which is typical, or even more is typical), then you're looking at 13+ years.

    Invested at 5% over 13 years, your $3000 turns into about $5700. That's more than enough ($37/mo over 13 years) to offset the $20 you think you save per month.
     
    Denny Crane, Jun 2, 2017
    #143
  4. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    This story isn't making a lot of sense. Are you claiming there is no amount of money you can pay anyone to install solar on your house? That's obviously bullshit.

    You can buy the equipment and hire a contractor to do it.

    If you are willing to pay $10M, I will do it. Ok, really I'll pay HCP minimum wage to do it, but I'll supervise.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jun 2, 2017
    #144
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  5. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    I could save more but to me...it's not just about the money...my example is that it's affordable if you're interested
     
    riverman, Jun 2, 2017
    #145
  6. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I would call Hydrogen a green energy fuel. You could grow spinach with your emissions. Perhaps solar with become useful and non intrusive. But the Paris agreement that was never ratified
    by the Senate does nothing to make any of this happen.
     
    MarAzul, Jun 2, 2017
    #146
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  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    These companies simply refuse, period.

    I offered to pay cash. The last salesman said, "you sound like you know what you're doing, I'll see if I can't get a quote on something for you. He called back in 10 minutes saying it's company policy to not install any system to any customer of IID due to the lack of retail subsidy."

    Now, I probably could order the materials online and hire roofers and whoever else are required to install the thing, but nobody's standing behind that.
     
    Denny Crane, Jun 2, 2017
    #147
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Then don't argue that it's cost effective. It's not.
     
    Denny Crane, Jun 2, 2017
    #148
  9. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    without knowing your utility company's programs I can only suggest a hybrid system, shop on the grid utilizing 240-720 v0lts whatever your planer/shop requires maybe even 3-phase, and small solar, for home. the new tesla batteries are extremely efficient. our home system which includes all electrical appliances including central air conditioning. our system which covers only 1/2 of one side of our roof generates over 5kws. the batteries are for storage during dark and for times when demand out strips production. with tax credits and utility byback of excess power payoff of $28,000 system /5 years
     
    lawai'a, Jun 2, 2017
    #149
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The taxpayers and the utility customers are providing you with a huge subsidy.

    Without those subsidies, your payoff might exceed the life of the batteries and panels.
     
    Denny Crane, Jun 2, 2017
    #150
  11. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    not at our electricity rates. expired tax credits and no more by back here. rates locked in at sub utility rates that will still pay off the systems before 20 year life of batteries. that's if never have a rate increase over next 20 years LOL. generators on fossil fuel provide most of the power here.
     
    lawai'a, Jun 2, 2017
    #151
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Denny Crane, Jun 2, 2017
    #152
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://theweek.com/articles/444064/does-solar-energy-have-battery-problem

    The problem is that a home's demand for electricity does not necessarily occur at the same time that the sun is out. Homes, of course, need power at night and on cloudy days. Solar systems feed excess power back into the electric grid, which allows homes to draw from the grid when the sun isn't shining, but that still entails a reliance on fossil fuels. (One way to mitigate that would be for governments to build significantly more nuclear power stations, but they have been increasingly reluctant to do so in the wake of the nuclear accident in Fukushima.)

    The ideal solution is a big battery that can store at least a day's worth of electricity, if not more for the winter months in colder climates. Such batteries already exist. For example, Tesla uses 60 kWh and 85 kWh batteries in its cars, enough for up to 300 miles of driving, and two to three days of power for an average U.S. household.

    The trouble is that each kW of storage carries a whopping price tag of $600 for consumers. Adding a 60 kWh battery to a household solar system would tack on $36,000 to the total cost, lifting the price of 20 years of solar power to at least $47,000. That's way too much — especially considering that the battery could need to be replaced long before a solar panel's 20-year lifespan is up.
     
    Denny Crane, Jun 2, 2017
    #153
  14. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Cool, talking math!

    28k well that is just a bit more time than I said, actuarial life pulse 9. But the buy back? That means on the grid. They now charge a grid connection fee each month of $50. Thats fifty even if you don't use any power or it eats all the buy back. Need to be off the grid or it is silly.
     
    MarAzul, Jun 2, 2017
    #154
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  15. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Winter month are awful dark here on the South Coast. My wifes solar yard lights don't work until spring, about May.
     
    MarAzul, Jun 2, 2017
    #155
  16. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    I believe it would be difficult at your latitude from an efficiency stand point. here at about 19 degrees we probably produce more with less, plus kona only gets about 7 inches of rain/year and little cloud cover. big difference sorry. I know of two large cabinet shops in the area that are hybrid systems. I am sure the math worked out in their favor.
     
    lawai'a, Jun 2, 2017
    #156
  17. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    right our daylight hours vary little by season thus no daylight savings here.
     
    lawai'a, Jun 2, 2017
    #157
  18. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    When people in Vegas and Phoenix start getting off the grid you guys can think about it. Good old Warren Buffet is trying to stop that though.
     
    bodyman5000 and 1, Jun 2, 2017
    #158
  19. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    southpoint has a large wind farm that is capable of harnessing the trade winds to produce enough electricity for about 60,000 homes. problem currently is the age and capacity of the grid to carry that generation. we have geothermal on the hilo side developing too.
     
    lawai'a, Jun 2, 2017
    #159
  20. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Wow! those batteries are way too expensive. I am using Trojans 6V golf cart batteries in the boat. Have about 19Kwh installed, a bit more than a days power. But nowhere near $600 a kwh.
    I question 20 year life on the battery too. That three time the life of Trojan. Not proven yet.
     
    MarAzul, Jun 2, 2017
    #160
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