<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Mar 8 2007, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think a lot of players are overrated but I never thought Nash was until recently. During the game against the Lakers, the broadcasters kept talking about how he has no flaws. Flaws? are you kidding? the guy can't even guard a locked door, he's soft, gets tired and isn't a good rebounder. I mean, theirs no doubt that he's one hell of a play maker but still. He keeps winning MVPs yet, his old teammate in Dallas is taking his team much much further. Nash has so much talent around him that it's hard to believe how his role couldn't be replaced. Jason Kidd could do it, or any other good playmaker for that matter. He and his team is one-dimensional, and after playing brilliantly in the regular season, they never seem to figure out how to be successful in the playoffs. (I do think D'Antoni should take some of the blame for that though.)Like I said, there's no doubt that he is one of the best players in the world but, I don't think he is as great as everybody says.P.S. I'm sorry if this subject was made before.</div>hell, no!when steve got injured this year, the suns were suddenly turned into just a mediocre team. Even the Blazers would have beaten them if Travis Outlaw could make a freaking layup... Shawn Marion really isnt much without Steve there alongside him, Raja doesn't get the kind of 3 point looks without nash, and Amare is still amazing, but gets a lot more defensive attention when Nash is out.so no
If you read my post, I agreed the media overrates Nash. And you said the media does overplay him. We also agreed on his defense liability. We basically just disagree with his offense, hence why I did not paste that part of the quote. You on the other hand, felt the need to say you do not agree at all with me. I'm not nitpicking, just trying to make sense of what your saying.Also, I'm not downplaying Nash, I said in my post he's a very good player. Great passer and has great court vision. I just think he's overrated by his praise from the media. The MVP type seasons he is having with the Suns. No. He did not have the benefit of athletic players in Dallas like he is with the Suns. What? Nash led Mavericks did not go to 3 WCF. Tough road for Nash, but if he's worthy of this praise then he'll get his team to the Finals.
ROK how is Nash not offensively great? 19 points, 12 assists and leads one of the most exciting basketball teams in the nba.
I'm talking about his overall career. You can go with 2 in which he beat Western conference teams 4 times and you can go with 1 when he beat Western conference teams twice and I think a couple more times in previous years? He has had much more success in a much tougher conference than Kidd which is why I don't think Kidd getting to those 2 Finals means he is a winner and Nash isn't and he doesn't deserve any more praise for that. I have Kidd as a better career point guard, but right now it is Nash IMO.We can agree that the media overrates him because some think he's the best in the league...I just don't care about the media much. I care about smart opinions.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>ROK how is Nash not offensively great? 19 points, 12 assists and leads one of the most exciting basketball teams in the nba.</div>I don't think he's a guy who will lead the league in scoring is what I mean by not being great offensively. I think he's limited to shooting jumpers. He creates offense well for others, but for himself I think he's not great ala some of the scorers in this league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Mar 8 2007, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think he's a guy who will lead the league in scoring is what I mean by not being great offensively. I think he's limited to shooting jumpers. He creates offense well for others, but for himself I think he's not great ala some of the scorers in this league.</div>He's no Kobe, LeBron, AI, Wade or TMac scoring-wise, but he CAN drive to the basket, is one of the best 3-point and free throw shooters and has some accurate floaters and circus shots in his arsenal and can score 40+ if he's forced to. He wouldn't average 30 on another team, but going with the points he scores and at the efficiency he scores it at and add it to his court vision and unselfishness and I think he is one of the top total offensive players in the game right now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Mar 8 2007, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think a lot of players are overrated but I never thought Nash was until recently. During the game against the Lakers, the broadcasters kept talking about how he has no flaws. Flaws? are you kidding? the guy can't even guard a locked door, he's soft, gets tired and isn't a good rebounder. I mean, theirs no doubt that he's one hell of a play maker but still. He keeps winning MVPs yet, his old teammate in Dallas is taking his team much much further. Nash has so much talent around him that it's hard to believe how his role couldn't be replaced. Jason Kidd could do it, or any other good playmaker for that matter. He and his team is one-dimensional, and after playing brilliantly in the regular season, they never seem to figure out how to be successful in the playoffs. (I do think D'Antoni should take some of the blame for that though.)Like I said, there's no doubt that he is one of the best players in the world but, I don't think he is as great as everybody says.P.S. I'm sorry if this subject was made before.</div>I think that Jason Kidd and other point guards could do well in Phoenix, but I do not believe there is a player in the league that could do as well as Steve Nash does at point guard there. I believe this for a few reasons, mainly centered around his ability to shoot and drive, mixed with his passing ability. Jason Kidd, Andre Miller, Chris Paul, none of them have the three point shot that Nash has which makes him more dangerous for this system than they are. Another reason, is Nash initiates the pick and roll that the Suns live by in the half court, to perfection, better than anyone else in the league. That is what makes him dangerous, and better for this system than anyone else in the league.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Mar 8 2007, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Good topic Bryant. I think he is in the sense of how he's been built up through the media. I mean I think he's just in a perfect system that plays to his strengths but he should not be lamented as one of the best players in basketball. Which some see him as, I think he's a very good player but hardly one of the best. His defense leaves a lot to be desire obviously, the only thing he excels at is his passing and court vision. I feel his offense is not great, he's not a guy you put your offense onto and let him carry it one on one. He's a jumpshooter, he's not going to beat you with his drive or draw contact. Still a fan though.</div>First off, Steve Nash is more than just a jumpshooter offensively. He can get to the rim well, most of it set up by his jump shot. He might not be the quickest point guard in the league, but he is still able to get to the rim very well and set up this offense. That is one of the reasons why this offense is successful, is his ability to drive and cause defenses to come at him. Sure, it's helped out by picks for him to get around, but being able to run someone off of a pick is part of his being able to create. Like ASUfan said, Nash has the ability to go off for 40 points if needed to, we saw it in the playoffs before.I am sick of hearing about that system though, have you ever thought maybe he is what is making that system so great? Without him, that team sputters offensively, no one else on the team can take over for long stretchs and run that offense other than him. Sure Barbosa could do it in small stretch's last year, but when Nash was out long stretchs the offense had a hard time. The Clippers series proved that, and his games where he was out this year proved it. To go along with that, even if it was the system that made him great, the system is what makes alot of players great. Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, John Stockton, all the greats were put into systems that highlighted their abilities. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are both all-time great players, but the triangle offense helped to elevate both of their games. Magic Johnson was in a running offense his entire career, and that helped make him great. John Stockton was made great because of Karl Malone, and the way Jerry Sloan formed that offense around Malone's scoring and Stockton's passing. So I really get tired of hearing that system is what is making Nash great. He is just a great player these days, helped out by a system, just the same as Kobe is a great player being helped out by a perfect system for him.
As of late, my opinions have changed on him a little bit. When he went down for those few games, the Suns were a completley different team. They were losing games, and they werent playing as good compared to when Nash is there. I thought that they could function without him, but I guess that I was wrong. Offensivley, Nash is as good as it gets. He is a great decision maker, he is a hell of a shooter, and he can get to the basket. BUT, on the defensive end, he is a liability. He cant stick with his man what so ever...If a person is saying that Nash has "no flaws", then he is being overrated, but besides that, no. Nash is a hell of a player, and he is deserving all of the talk that he gets.If he wins another MVP though this year, im going to sh*t a brick.
Why was everyone so shocked that when Nash went out, the Suns struggled a lot? Obviously when you take out the engine of the car it isn't going to run...obviously in an offense that he runs and demands the ball 90% of the time...it's going to be a huge difference... I like Nash, whenever you watch him you just fall in love with the guy....but that Suns offense is so fishy and wierd to me. I don't know. It's garbage basketball to me. I look at what Kidd and Payton did, put up better numbers and were better defenders....they never won MVP's, now Nash comes along and everyone acts like he's the best thing since breast implants...He will never be better than Kidd/Payton....his awards the last few seasons will overrate him in the history books... I just don't know what to think about Nash...every year my opinions change with him....ugh.
I don't see how you can call the Suns basketball garbage basketball, sure it might not be your normal basketball, but I don't call any type of winning basketball garbage basketball. It's garbage basketball, when your team is loosing because of an offense, or because the team just sucks, then that's garbage basketball. The Suns style is fun to watch, and really good basketball. They get out and run the break, they shoot lots of three's off constant drive and kicks, and they run the pick and roll to death. It's not your normal basketball, but it's effective and good. I see nothing garbage about it.
Nash is a very good player. He has had a lot of hype in going to phoenix and how well he has done there over the last few years, but I think that people do overrate him in a sense. He is a good scorer, but not as good as people make him out to be. He excels at passing, with good court vision ,and he can shoot very, very well, but I do believe he is somewhat overrated. He just has too many great players in phoenix, and a lot of the times he gets most of the credit for their success, while marion, stoudemire and their great role players get overlooked.
Nash isn't limited to jumpers only. He drives all the time, and does tons of layups. Since you obviously haven't seen too many Suns games, I guess I can't blame you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (carolina_kid22 @ Mar 10 2007, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't see how you can call the Suns basketball garbage basketball, sure it might not be your normal basketball, but I don't call any type of winning basketball garbage basketball. It's garbage basketball, when your team is loosing because of an offense, or because the team just sucks, then that's garbage basketball. The Suns style is fun to watch, and really good basketball. They get out and run the break, they shoot lots of three's off constant drive and kicks, and they run the pick and roll to death. It's not your normal basketball, but it's effective and good. I see nothing garbage about it.</div> I don't care if the Suns win every game...it's just not good basketball that I care to watch. I don't like watching guys stand on the three point line and I don't like watching 120-105 games where defense is completely thrown out the window. Thank god most teams don't have talent to play like the Suns do. Might be good for ratings and filling up the arenas but it's just not for me at all...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (41nowitzness41 @ Mar 10 2007, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash is a very good player. He has had a lot of hype in going to phoenix and how well he has done there over the last few years, but I think that people do overrate him in a sense. He is a good scorer, but not as good as people make him out to be. He excels at passing, with good court vision ,and he can shoot very, very well, but I do believe he is somewhat overrated. He just has too many great players in phoenix, and a lot of the times he gets most of the credit for their success, while marion, stoudemire and their great role players get overlooked.</div>Yes he does have a lot of talented players to work with but the thing is that those players do not know how to win basketball games. Take Steve Nash away from the Suns and they become the Knicks in that they have several talented players but they don't understand how to win games and play team basketball.
Nash is not overrated. He's clearly helped by the fact that he's been surrounded by a team that can knock down open shots, but he's the one finding them open and getting them the looks. Yeah, the guy can't play a lick of defense, but that doesn't matter as much when he can score 20 and dish out more than 10 assists a game, while his team puts up 120. Nash makes that team tick.
Yeah Nash is on a team that suits all his strengths. His impact is probably stronger for the suns than most teams though. Not all teams can spread the floor out like the suns and have the athleticism as well.
Nash isn't overrated. When Nash is injured and isnt playing, the Suns lose. That tells you how important he is to the team.
No. Steve Nash is the best point guard in the entire league, no doubt. He's the most important player on his team, and who knows what kind of the team the suns would be without him. Although I know Nash is a great player, and I don't mean to dis him, but I would be dissappointed if he won MVP again, just beacause of the fact that I truly believe Kobe finally deserves an MVP award if the lakers hold their playoff spot for the rest of the season.
There is no way Nash is overrated, for teh single reason that before he got there they sucked despite having both Amare and Shawn Marion, who everyoen seems to argue are teh reason for his succes. Nash took a team that had almost finished last the season before and too them to teh conference finals, with a crew that might have been a little worse than teh year before
^I don't think they completely sucked, considering they wern teh playoffs and gave the Spurs quite a showing with the great Stephon "me, myself, and I" Marbury.I think Nash is a great player, with unmatched court vision and playmaking skills.But I can see why some might say he's overrated.Some anylyst and fans think he's the best payer in the league, and some act like he's the best since Jordan...or they hype him up like he is anyways.And he's not. He's a top 5 player in the league, and his MVP's come from him being in the perfect system, which he enhances with his playmaking ability.No he's not a bum, but no, he's not the best player in the league...he deserves all the respect he gets, but it can only go so far.
