<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 11 2007, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^I don't think they completely sucked, considering they wern teh playoffs and gave the Spurs quite a showing with the great Stephon "me, myself, and I" Marbury.I think Nash is a great player, with unmatched court vision and playmaking skills.But I can see why some might say he's overrated.Some anylyst and fans think he's the best payer in the league, and some act like he's the best since Jordan...or they hype him up like he is anyways.And he's not. He's a top 5 player in the league, and his MVP's come from him being in the perfect system, which he enhances with his playmaking ability.No he's not a bum, but no, he's not the best player in the league...he deserves all the respect he gets, but it can only go so far.</div>Yeah, but they barely made the playoffs with Mebury, and now they're written in as a lock for top 4 seed. There are at tops 2 or 3 other PGs in the league who could even handle this type of offense. So the offense is just as much a product of him as he is of the offense.
^Nah, I think there are a few more than 2 or 3 PG's that can run that offense. Now they may not be as amazing in it as Nash, but any up tempo PG could run that offense, and make the Suns a legit threat.
I don't think so. I don't think there are really any guards that can run an offense that fast for 40 minutes a night and make it work.
I think he is overrated. sure he runs the floor hes great hes wonderful suns wouldnt be suns without him, but still... I think they way overvalue that playmaking ability of his. I realise its important, but there are also other people in the league who can do that. yes, he is very good at it, but... having that one skill(and shooting) doesn't really make him one of the best in the league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (junot111 @ Mar 11 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think he is overrated. sure he runs the floor hes great hes wonderful suns wouldnt be suns without him, but still... I think they way overvalue that playmaking ability of his. I realise its important, but there are also other people in the league who can do that. yes, he is very good at it, but... having that one skill(and shooting) doesn't really make him one of the best in the league.</div>There aren't that many that can spread the floor, make players collapse on him, thread needle passes right on target, and knock down jumpers when his team needs it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ Mar 11 2007, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think so. I don't think there are really any guards that can run an offense that fast for 40 minutes a night and make it work.</div>Give me Jason Kidd on that team instead of Steve Nash and they do just as well. The reason the Suns do so poorly without Nash is because they dont have a natural PG besides him. You take away Nash and the flow of the offense is stopped. You put a guy like Kidd in his place, and the offense works just as well, and you put a guy like Chris Paul or Deron Williams in there and that team isnt that much worse. Steve Nash is the perfect piece for that team and he would do it the best along with Jason Kidd IMO, but the team would still be great if they had another pass first PG on that team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 12 2007, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Give me Jason Kidd on that team instead of Steve Nash and they do just as well. The reason the Suns do so poorly without Nash is because they dont have a natural PG besides him. You take away Nash and the flow of the offense is stopped. You put a guy like Kidd in his place, and the offense works just as well, and you put a guy like Chris Paul or Deron Williams in there and that team isnt that much worse. Steve Nash is the perfect piece for that team and he would do it the best along with Jason Kidd IMO, but the team would still be great if they had another pass first PG on that team.</div>I love the way you broke that down. :winkglasses:
In short, yes he is overrated. Most of it is the media's fault, but some of it is his overblown stats being the system he is in and the teammates he has. he is incredible offensively, but I just don't see him as a top 5 player in the league that most see him as.PS- Kidd couldn't do it quite as good as Nash because he doesn't have the scoring ability Nash has.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 12 2007, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In short, yes he is overrated. Most of it is the media's fault, but some of it is his overblown stats being the system he is in and the teammates he has. he is incredible offensively, but I just don't see him as a top 5 player in the league that most see him as.PS- Kidd couldn't do it quite as good as Nash because he doesn't have the scoring ability Nash has.</div>In that case than. I do not see any players that could match him, as far as his value for his team. I really can't think of one player that is such an incredible passer with great vision, and also a dope three shooter, that would fit the Suns better. If that doesn't put him in top 5, I don't think anything will.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 11 2007, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In short, yes he is overrated. Most of it is the media's fault, but some of it is his overblown stats being the system he is in and the teammates he has. he is incredible offensively, but I just don't see him as a top 5 player in the league that most see him as.PS- Kidd couldn't do it quite as good as Nash because he doesn't have the scoring ability Nash has.</div>Yes, the offense runs much better if you have a point guard who can shoot the ball. Nash is the best in the league for the system and I don't think anyone else could run it as well as them, though a couple guys could take us to the WCF maybe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 11 2007, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In short, yes he is overrated. Most of it is the media's fault, but some of it is his overblown stats being the system he is in and the teammates he has. he is incredible offensively, but I just don't see him as a top 5 player in the league that most see him as.PS- Kidd couldn't do it quite as good as Nash because he doesn't have the scoring ability Nash has.</div>Then Kidd would just be able to get the rest of the team even more involved. Nash' shooting ability is just a bonus. Its not needed for that team to succeed. Even though he is a great shooter, other guys on that team could take those shots and do pretty much just as good.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 11 2007, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, the offense runs much better if you have a point guard who can shoot the ball. Nash is the best in the league for the system and I don't think anyone else could run it as well as them, though a couple guys could take us to the WCF maybe.</div>That is as far as Nash has taken them, and they havent beaten an elite team in the playoffs yet.Honeslty, you have Kidd on that team and they at least make it to the WCF. Not only would you have a great pg and leader, but you would have a guy on the team who is a great defender and a good rebounder. Although Kidd isnt a good scorer, it is not needed in that offense. All that would mean is that Barbosa would get more 3 point attempts, Marion would get more looks, and so would Amare. Although Nash' shooting definitely helps, it isnt necessary.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 11 2007, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Then Kidd would just be able to get the rest of the team even more involved. Nash' shooting ability is just a bonus. Its not needed for that team to succeed. Even though he is a great shooter, other guys on that team could take those shots and do pretty much just as good.</div>Nash's shooting adds a lot to that team. He gives them pullup 3's, hits open shots from just about anywhere, and his scoring ability further opens the floor for everyone else. At times, Kidd is a liability shooting the ball.But that's just offense. Kidd would add a huge defensive presence, and an AMAZING rebounder. But offensively, I think Nash would do a better job.
It really is needed. The Suns would be as good offensively without the shooting ability, 3's and free throws. And I know that's as far as Nash has taken them and I said a couple more and just a couple more guys might be able to take them there. The offense wouldn't be as successful though without Nash. How is a WCF team, one of the top 4 remaining, not elite?
I think people over-rate Jason Kidd's defensive abilities. He is a good defender but he really struggles with the smaller, faster point guards. Avery Johnson, Anthony Johnson, Tony Parker, .... they have all had their way with Kidd in the postseason.
^^ Segue into the 'is jason kidd overrated' thread hahaha<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 11 2007, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That is as far as Nash has taken them, and they havent beaten an elite team in the playoffs yet.Honeslty, you have Kidd on that team and they at least make it to the WCF. Not only would you have a great pg and leader, but you would have a guy on the team who is a great defender and a good rebounder. Although Kidd isnt a good scorer, it is not needed in that offense. All that would mean is that Barbosa would get more 3 point attempts, Marion would get more looks, and so would Amare. Although Nash' shooting definitely helps, it isnt necessary.</div>Nah, we wouldn't get as far with Jason. If you watch enough Suns like we have, you KNOW that Nash is a guy who almost always gets hot and starts stroking right when we need it. He's the most talented offense point guard in a long time, if not ever. The team starts falling behind, he starts shooting and pulling them back. I've seen Kidd fail multiple times trying to score to get his team back, he just can't do it. Nash is better than Kidd offensively, though Kidd has a slight edge overall.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ Mar 12 2007, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^^ Segue into the 'is jason kidd overrated' thread hahahaNah, we wouldn't get as far with Jason. If you watch enough Suns like we have, you KNOW that Nash is a guy who almost always gets hot and starts stroking right when we need it. He's the most talented offense point guard in a long time, if not ever. The team starts falling behind, he starts shooting and pulling them back. I've seen Kidd fail multiple times trying to score to get his team back, he just can't do it. Nash is better than Kidd offensively, though Kidd has a slight edge overall.</div>Kidd wouldnt be the one bringing them back in to the games. Their is enough talent on that team that he could just distribute the ball to them....Nash is alot better of a shooter, and he is probably the most clutch player on their team, but there are alot of other players that can score the basketball, and I mean alot. It doesn't have to be Nash to bring them back in to the games....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 13 2007, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kidd wouldnt be the one bringing them back in to the games. Their is enough talent on that team that he could just distribute the ball to them....Nash is alot better of a shooter, and he is probably the most clutch player on their team, but there are alot of other players that can score the basketball, and I mean alot. It doesn't have to be Nash to bring them back in to the games....</div>Yes, but there are INEVITABLY GOING TO BE NIGHTS when the team is off. I've seem many such nights, and we NEED someone to step up and start putting dirt into that hole. Nash is that man. The other players don't step up half the time. Guys like Barbosa are getting better and better though.
yeah, and there are going to be nights were Nash is off....take your pick. Nash is a good shooter and the most clutch player on the team like I said, but there are others that can score. And I feel with Jason Kidd, they would have a better all around player on both sides of the ball. They would have another rebounder, alot better of a defender no matter what you say, and a guy that has gotten to the finals before, twice.
