<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 12 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well, when they had Wade and no Shaq, they werent doing near as good as they are right now, so how is questioning his value ridiculous? Obviously the team is better with both players there, but look at how they are playing right now. Playing for their playoff lives? Then what would you call the first 2/3rds of the season? I guess they werent looking to make the playoffs then, and the players didnt care then. But once Wade goes down, they all of a sudden start trying harder and start playing better? Im sorry, but that is a retarted excuse. Like I have been saying, Wade being out allows the other players to play thier own game instead of having to watch Wade try and do it all himself.</div> Shaquille O'Neal has been stepping up and has been the big reason they are winning. 23/10 31/15/6 14/9 24/9/8 32/9 12/6 (18 mins) Pat Riley said the team lacked focus in the beginning of the year...I'm not saying they didn't care...but it's going down to the wire and we all know how Shaq likes to slack off....this is when he reves up the engine. Bottom line, these guys know it's time and they are stepping up with their guy out... The Heat going 6-0 doesn't mean Wade is overrated.
Shaq has been great but Eddie Jones playing at a very high level as well. It's like they both went into a time machine and are playing like they did 2 years ago. Also the Heat have a loaded bench.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Mar 12 2007, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shaquille O'Neal has been stepping up and has been the big reason they are winning. 23/10 31/15/6 14/9 24/9/8 32/9 12/6 (18 mins) Pat Riley said the team lacked focus in the beginning of the year...I'm not saying they didn't care...but it's going down to the wire and we all know how Shaq likes to slack off....this is when he reves up the engine. Bottom line, these guys know it's time and they are stepping up with their guy out... The Heat going 6-0 doesn't mean Wade is overrated.</div>And he is getting better numbers because Wade isnt the main point of the offense right now. When you have Shaq on your team, the offense is suppossed to be ran through him. I dont care if you have a prime Kobe, prime MJ, or prime whoever...The offense should revolve around him. But When Wade is there, he is looked at as the main offensive threat, and it obviously isnt better that way. And I am going to fail to believe that the team didnt care as much earlier on in the year. That is just a stupid theory to go by. Any team in the NBA is going to try 100 percent year round...even Shaq. If you want to call slacking off, taking alot of time off for his injury, then I guess you can say he was slacking off, but he was just being cautious. The other players arent stepping up. They were just forced to step down while they were playing with Wade.Then what does it mean? Does it mean the Heat are better off without Wade? You tell me...
They are still much better with Dwyane Wade. I don't understand how you could think otherwise. In the playoffs they are not nearly the threat without him...As long as Shaq and the core rotation is healthy they can do well without him for stretches.
I dont think they are a better team without Wade, I just think that it is funny that the team starts doing better once he goes down. Obviously the team is more dangerous come playoff time if he is in the lineup....I think I should have made the title something different. Like, is Shaq the real MVP of the Heat...or something like that. That is moreso what I am trying to get at.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 13 2007, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The offense should revolve around him. But When Wade is there, he is looked at as the main offensive threat, and it obviously isnt better that way.</div>They won a ring with Wade as focal point (and in Finals beat a much better overall team and with Shaq going for only 14PPG). As I said before, you are not looking at all the facts. You keep saying, "all of a sudden, with Wade gone, they are doing better." But in his last 9 games, they were 7-2. You are failing to look at the injuries he had to deal with early in season, Riley gone, and players just not meshing, playing inconsistently and without energy. The last 17 games (first 9 with Wade) they have come together, got another key part in Eddie Jones (who, next to Shaq, has been the best player on the Heat, averaging around 15PPG I believe), and basically everyone is healthy and playing with energy and the fire they had last season.
I was thinking about this, and it's kinda strange. I feel like Wade is normally the best player on the court when Shaq is playing. If Shaq isn't playing, it takes away a lot of opportunities for Wade to take advantage of the D. So, in a way, the answer is yes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Mar 13 2007, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I was thinking about this, and it's kinda strange. I feel like Wade is normally the best player on the court when Shaq is playing. If Shaq isn't playing, it takes away a lot of opportunities for Wade to take advantage of the D. So, in a way, the answer is yes.</div>He averaged 29/8/5/2 on 49% shooting without Shaq. He was the first since Kevin Johnson to put up 30/12 for 3 straight games, and this was without Shaq. His highest scoring games this seaosn were without Shaq. So no, with or without Shaq he gets it done and is as good of a player. Outside of maybe 2-4 other players in the whole league, there isn't one player in which I'd say is better than him. On a team level, no way is the team getting past the first round without both of them playing.
The team wade had to deal with was riddled with injuries. The coach quit on them. No motivation. You had antoine walker missing open lay ups...Shaq has come in, Riley is back and the team is healthy. There obviously going to win more games. Wade never had that luxury of a healthy team.The only thing you can hold wade on is that he can't motivate his team. Never has. Same thing can be said about Kobe in la and the collapse that's happening there. When the team is riddled with injuries and the morale is low, it's really had to keep the team motivated. I don't blame wade for it.edit: Also, Everyone the heat were above .500 without shaq and with wade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 13 2007, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He averaged 29/8/5/2 on 49% shooting without Shaq. He was the first since Kevin Johnson to put up 30/12 for 3 straight games, and this was without Shaq. His highest scoring games this seaosn were without Shaq. So no, with or without Shaq he gets it done and is as good of a player. Outside of maybe 2-4 other players in the whole league, there isn't one player in which I'd say is better than him. On a team level, no way is the team getting past the first round without both of them playing.</div>Uh, I didn't say he doesn't get it done. Stats aren't the point, either. I said that he is a far better player with Shaq playing. The Heat as a whole are far better with Shaq on the court. I didn't say that Shaq would be able to carry the Heat to a title without Wade or anything ridiculous like that, so stop acting like I am. You can't deny that the Heat and Wade are better with Shaq. Wade is damn good, but put him on a team like say... the Cavs and he wouldn't be Finals MVP. Ever.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Mar 14 2007, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Uh, I didn't say he doesn't get it done. Stats aren't the point, either. I said that he is a far better player with Shaq playing. The Heat as a whole are far better with Shaq on the court. I didn't say that Shaq would be able to carry the Heat to a title without Wade or anything ridiculous like that, so stop acting like I am. You can't deny that the Heat and Wade are better with Shaq. Wade is damn good, but put him on a team like say... the Cavs and he wouldn't be Finals MVP. Ever.</div>I fully agree that with Shaq the Heat are a better team and gives Wade a better oppertunity to win a title...but you can say that about any great 2nd option. But as an individual, Wade flourishes just as much without Shaq. It isn't even like his FG % goes like down as you would expect...it was right at around 49% like last year. Without Shaq, Wade gets more offensive oppertunities, and he did very well in that role without Shaq this year.Put Kobe on the Cavs and he would never win a ring either. But what Wade has shown he can do is carry a team that is down 0-2 to, IMO, a superior overall team, to 4 straight wins with 40PPG in those wins, and many clutch plays sprinkled in. And he did this with Shaq averagigngonly 14PPG, and the majority of the role players not stepping up. Does this mean they would have won that series without Shaq? Of course not, but between that, and keeping this team filled with injuries and other inconveniences above .500, makes him a good leader and compliments the talent everyone knows he has.
