Re: Take em' or Leave em'? Obviously we all know that Boston has a ton of young talent and not all of it is going to be able to stay here for our team to be successful. Out of all the young guys, which ones would you keep?Gerald GreenAl JeffersonKendrick PerkinsTony AllenDelonte WestRyan GomesSebastian TelfairLeon PoweRajon RondoAllan RayI would keep Gomes, Green, Al J, Rondo, and Delonte. I could see trading anyone else if it could help us get a good deal. If also it turns out that we have the #3 pick this year and we need to make a deal. I'd hate to do it, but I would part with Gerald if it meant we could bring in some solid vets.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? To tell you the truth, the only untouchable players on this team should be Paul Pierce and Al Jefferson. Of course, we must try our best to keep Rondo around as well. But other than them, I'd trade anybody else if the price is right. Now, I love Gerald Green and I think he's going to be a good player, but I would package him with Theo's contract and a filler or two if we can get another All-Star player to help Pierce. However, before we start evaluating which guys to keep and which guys to trade, I think we have to wait until the draft lottery. If we end up with the 2nd pick, we get Kevin Durant, that makes Gerald Green VERY expandable. If we get Oden, we might want to focus on trading for a good point guard rather than an All-Star big man. If we get unlucky and get neither of the top 2 picks, then we should package that pick (#3-5) along with Ratliff's expiring deal, Gerald Green, and maybe another young player and see what we can get with that. The only ones that should be called untouchable are Paul and Big Al. And again, you've got to try your hardest to keep Rondo as well, but I think anyone else can go, depending on what we get in return.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? Yeah you make a good point. If we don't end up with a #1, #2 pick then we can definately see some of these young guys go. AL J and Pierce are the only two untouchable, I would like to see a few others stick around. I absolutely love Gomes, he's got a great attitude and I think he's a great role player. But if it means dealing him to get a good vet I can't really complain.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WELCOMEtotheJUNGLE @ Mar 14 2007, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah you make a good point. If we don't end up with a #1, #2 pick then we can definately see some of these young guys go. AL J and Pierce are the only two untouchable, I would like to see a few others stick around. I absolutely love Gomes, he's got a great attitude and I think he's a great role player. But if it means dealing him to get a good vet I can't really complain.</div> Yeah people talk about wanting a stable veteran off the bench - we already have one, basically, in Ryan Gomes. I definitely see what you mean, and I absolutely LOVE Gomes as well. He's the most consistent player on this team. However, I mean if he's the make-or-break guy for a player like Gasol or Jermaine, then so be it.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? Paul and Al are definitely untouchable.I also think Gomes, Delonte and Rondo need to be kept in the fold, but they can be dealt if the right deal comes along. Green is definitely a keeper, but he's by far our biggest trading chip, and I think especially if we get Durant, his biggest impact on our team will be in a trade. I love Allen, and I'd love to see him stay around, and hopefully he will go up to almost untouchable status as he was before his ACL tear.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? Gerald Green - Should keep him unless he's a piece in a good trade. Al Jefferson - Cannot let him go.Kendrick Perkins - Cannot let him go either.Tony Allen - Not untoughable but definitely a guy to hang on to.Delonte West - Same as Tony AllenRyan Gomes - Same as Tony AllenSebastian Telfair - He has potential but it's cleary Rondo's team.Leon Powe - Replaceable, not a lot of skills.Rajon Rondo - Your PG, untouchable.Allan Ray - Same as Tony Allen but his shooting off the bench is fantastic.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Mar 15 2007, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Gerald Green - Should keep him unless he's a piece in a good trade. Al Jefferson - Cannot let him go. Kendrick Perkins - Cannot let him go either. Tony Allen - Not untoughable but definitely a guy to hang on to. Delonte West - Same as Tony Allen Ryan Gomes - Same as Tony Allen Sebastian Telfair - He has potential but it's cleary Rondo's team. Leon Powe - Replaceable, not a lot of skills. Rajon Rondo - Your PG, untouchable. Allan Ray - Same as Tony Allen but his shooting off the bench is fantastic.</div> Powe does have skills. He's an absolute monster of a person, he's an excellent rebounder, he can block shots, and he's extremely physical. I also think you are immensely overrating Allan Ray. He's a guy that could be cut next year, depending on the moves we make this summer and depending on how good of a player we can get at pick #31-33. I don't think he's a guy you "want to hang on to."
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Mar 15 2007, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Powe does have skills. He's an absolute monster of a person, he's an excellent rebounder, he can block shots, and he's extremely physical. I also think you are immensely overrating Allan Ray. He's a guy that could be cut next year, depending on the moves we make this summer and depending on how good of a player we can get at pick #31-33. I don't think he's a guy you "want to hang on to."</div> Leon Powe just doesn't impress me that much. You guys are so deep Ray's a player you could cut, I guess I forgot that, most teams in the NBA would like to have a shot at Allan Ray.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Mar 15 2007, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Leon Powe just doesn't impress me that much. You guys are so deep Ray's a player you could cut, I guess I forgot that, most teams in the NBA would like to have a shot at Allan Ray.</div> Yes, Allan Ray is a good shooter and someone most teams would like as a solid 11th man or so on the roster, but you put him in the same class as West/Allen/Gomes by saying he's "not untouchable, but a guy you definitely want." Well, Allan Ray is another Eddie House. We can always sign a 6'1'' sharpshooter to play when our key players are injured. I like Ray, but putting him on the list of "near-keepers" doesn't make any sense to me.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>He's a guy that could be cut next year, depending on the moves we make this summer and depending on how good of a player we can get at pick #31-33. I don't think he's a guy you "want to hang on to."</div>I don't know about that. He's been a nice scorer off the bench in some games. Also, I have been hearing they might try to see if he can play some point. He's certainly been contributing more than Sebastian Telfair as of late. I think right now he has more to offer than Telfair.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? Gerald Green - If we ever do deal him it shouldn't be after this year. Gerald needs another year to show people that shot that Tommy always tells him to take.Al Jefferson - Untouchable.Kendrick Perkins - I don't think we'd get much for him...Tony Allen - Might not be the same once he returns, but if he plays how he was, then I'd say his spot on this team is pretty safe.Delonte West - He's done everything, not untouchable, but definitely one of the keepers.Ryan Gomes - Depending on whether or not we get Durant...Sebastian Telfair - Get him outta here, I'm sure if he gets enough playing time this year then he'll raise a few eyebrows from other teams.Leon Powe - I really want to see him get more minutes, whenever he's out there he always crashes the boards more than anyone else, and he's a true physical threat.Rajon Rondo - Untouchable.Allan Ray - Must learn to play defense before he can safely say he's in a spot like Delonte's or Tony Allen's.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WELCOMEtotheJUNGLE @ Mar 15 2007, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know about that. He's been a nice scorer off the bench in some games. Also, I have been hearing they might try to see if he can play some point. He's certainly been contributing more than Sebastian Telfair as of late. I think right now he has more to offer than Telfair.</div> Yes, he can score. He can shoot the ball. And yes, he will be seeing some time at the point for these last 18 games. He's great for an undrafted rookie, there is no reason he shouldn't have been drafted. But to say that he's in the same class as TA/Delonte/Gomes as far as "keepers" go, no way. Not at all. Ray can be replaced by Mike Gansey or something, I just don't see the logic that he is a guy that we just can't let go.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? The only guys that I for sure want to see in a Celtics uniform for the next 5 years or so are.....Al JeffersonGerald GreenRyan GomesRajon RondoTony AllenI feel that the others are replacable....If Tony cant come back next season fully healthy, and return to what he was, replace him with Delonte. The only ones out of those 5 who are untouchables IMO are Gerald and Al. I would trade the other 3 or 4, but I wouldnt trade Gerald or Al. I think their futures are too great.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 15 2007, 06:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The only guys that I for sure want to see in a Celtics uniform for the next 5 years or so are..... Al Jefferson Gerald Green Ryan Gomes Rajon Rondo Tony Allen I feel that the others are replacable....If Tony cant come back next season fully healthy, and return to what he was, replace him with Delonte. The only ones out of those 5 who are untouchables IMO are Gerald and Al. I would trade the other 3 or 4, but I wouldnt trade Gerald or Al. I think their futures are too great.</div> Wow, you'd rather trade Rajon Rondo than Gerald Green? Why? It is MUCH simpler to go out there and bring in a wing scorer than to go out there and get a guy like Rondo. He's a TRUE point guard, an assassin on defense, he has a sky high basketball IQ, he's a vocal leader, and he brings all the little things/intangibles that are just natural... it can't be taught. Gerald is an amazing athlete and he is at the very least going to be a good scorer in this league, but he doesn't bring as much to the table as Rondo.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? ^Yeah, I would rather trade Rondo than Green. Rondo has one of the worst jumpshots in the NBA for a guard which I hate. I love Rondo as a player because he puts in so much heart, he is a good defender, and he can take it to the hole strong, but Gerald has so much more of an upside. He has the ability to become a top ten player in the league and his athleticism is outstanding. Also, he has developed a really good shot this year from both 3 point range and the mid range. And their have been so many great PG's coming in drafts the last couple years, so I think a guy like Rondo could be replaced.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 15 2007, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^Yeah, I would rather trade Rondo than Green. Rondo has one of the worst jumpshots in the NBA for a guard which I hate. I love Rondo as a player because he puts in so much heart, he is a good defender, and he can take it to the hole strong, but Gerald has so much more of an upside. He has the ability to become a top ten player in the league and his athleticism is outstanding. Also, he has developed a really good shot this year from both 3 point range and the mid range. And their have been so many great PG's coming in drafts the last couple years, so I think a guy like Rondo could be replaced.</div> I don't want to come off as an ass - but you've got to be kidding me. You don't think a wing scorer can be replaced easier than a true point guard? That is just INSANE, I'm sorry. And yeah, Rondo doesn't have a good jump shot, he needs to put in a lot of work, but he's does EVERYTHING ELSE well... already, as a rookie. The things Rondo does on the court can't be taught, you either have it or you don't. You can teach a player how to shoot, you can't teach a player how to have a high basketball IQ and you can't teach intangibles. You can't teach leadership. I just don't understand where you are coming from. Wing scorers are a dime a dozen, true point guards don't come along very often. I love Gerald, don't get me wrong, but he's 100x easier to replace.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? Dude, look at the drafts as of late....Their have been so many very good point guards coming out compared to good SG's and SF's. Gerald Green is even younger than Rondo, and if you give Gerald a couple of years, he is going to be amazing. And if you read my posts correctly, I never said it was easier to find a PG, I just pointed out that their have been alot of good PG's in the drafts latley....And actually, you can teach hustle. Just look at Bassy for example. If you have watched him the last few games, he has been working alot harder for playing time and what not, and his hustle has increased alot. And what makes you think that Rondo will all of a sudden learn a jumpshot if he hasnt for his entire life? He just isnt a good shooter. Gerald has shown that he can do it all as a player in glimpses. Paul is going to be leaving the Celtics soon, and Gerald is going to be the one that is going to step in. He needs to be around.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? [quote name='ballerman2112' post='310394' date='Mar 16 2007, 06:26 PM']Dude, look at the drafts as of late....Their have been so many very good point guards coming out compared to good SG's and SF's.[/quote] That doesn't matter. We never got a Chris Paul, a Deron Williams, or a Raymond Felton. We never got one of those stars. Sure, the past couple years have produced some good guards, but past drafts mean nothing, especially considering we never got one of those guys. Green/Rondo are both 21 and you could say the same thing about either one. Well, you clearly stated that you'd rather give up the point guard over the wing scorer. Good, Bassy is working hard. Did you expect him to go out there and dog it after he lost his job? What makes you think Gerald will learn how to defend, learn the plays, become 3 times the ballhandler he is, toughen up, and become consistent? And Rondo hasn't? Rondo brings a hell of a lot more to the table than Gerald does.
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Mar 16 2007, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That doesn't matter. We never got a Chris Paul, a Deron Williams, or a Raymond Felton. We never got one of those stars. Sure, the past couple years have produced some good guards, but past drafts mean nothing, especially considering we never got one of those guys.Green/Rondo are both 21 and you could say the same thing about either one.Well, you clearly stated that you'd rather give up the point guard over the wing scorer.Good, Bassy is working hard. Did you expect him to go out there and dog it after he lost his job?What makes you think Gerald will learn how to defend, learn the plays, become 3 times the ballhandler he is, toughen up, and become consistent?And Rondo hasn't? Rondo brings a hell of a lot more to the table than Gerald does...</div>No, but you obviously got Rondo, and you could have gotten Foye, and you could have gotten Williams that went to New Jersey. Their are good PG's in the draft every year, and I think it is harder to find a player with Green's athleticism and potential.Yeah, I would rather give up Rondo than Green....No, of course not. I just used that as an example to show you that players can learn hustle because you said that they couldnt....which is a lie.Gerald has shown glimpses of good defense, and what makes you think that he wont learn the plays. He isnt retarted....He doesn't need to become 3 times the ballhandler he is. He isnt a good ballhandler but he will improve over time. He isnt untough, and consistency comes with more playing time and experience. You said something earlier about Rondo being able to get his shot better...What makes you think that will improve?Yeah, as of right now Rondo is better. I never said that he wasnt. But Gerald has so much more potential than Rondo that its not even funny
Re: Take em' or Leave em'? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 16 2007, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, but you obviously got Rondo, and you could have gotten Foye, and you could have gotten Williams that went to New Jersey. Their are good PG's in the draft every year, and I think it is harder to find a player with Green's athleticism and potential. Yeah, I would rather give up Rondo than Green.... No, of course not. I just used that as an example to show you that players can learn hustle because you said that they couldnt....which is a lie. Gerald has shown glimpses of good defense, and what makes you think that he wont learn the plays. He isnt retarted....He doesn't need to become 3 times the ballhandler he is. He isnt a good ballhandler but he will improve over time. He isnt untough, and consistency comes with more playing time and experience. You said something earlier about Rondo being able to get his shot better...What makes you think that will improve? Yeah, as of right now Rondo is better. I never said that he wasnt. But Gerald has so much more potential than Rondo that its not even funny</div> 1. We couldn't have had Foye, we could have had Brandon Roy. A lot of people don't know this Randy Foye story, do they? Wow. Ok, let me break it down for you... Kevin McHale went into the draft knowing that Randy Foye was going to be the newest T-Wolve. When he found out that the Celtics/Blazers made a deal, and he knew that the Blazers made the deal to get Brandon Roy, McHale decided to pick Roy at 6 instead of Foye so he could make a deal with Portland and get a little extra in return. He did just that, he got cash considerations. So, in conclusion, if the Celtics kept the #7 pick, we would have had Brandon Roy to play with Pierce/Wally/TA/Green/West. Wouldn't work, Ainge knew we needed a PG. 2. Wrong, it is not a lie. A player either "wants it" or he doesn't.. it's natural. 3. I was simply throwing your own words back at you. You said "what makes you think Rondo will learn to shoot" and I came back by saying "well what makes you think that Gerald will learn to defend, dribble, etc." I do believe that BOTH will be excellent players, but if you are going to doubt Rondo's flaws then you have to doubt Gerald's. Also, yes, Gerald has shown flashes of solid defense, but Rondo has shown flashes of solid offense as well. He's had games where he made his FT's and hit 3 jumpers. 4. Again, what makes YOU think that Gerald WILL improve too? 5. Gerald has "SOO MUCH MORE POTENTIAL THAN RONDO IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY?" No, not really man. They both have great potential, Gerald's isn't THAT much better. It's not like we are comparing a guy like Chris Paul to Sebastian Telfair, it's not a big difference. And again... a good PG is MUCH more valuable than a good scoring SF. It's that simple. Look man, I don't want to get rid of Gerald. I don't want to get rid of Rondo. But I realize that in order to bring in that necessary good veteran to help Pierce, we HAVE to give up something to get something. And if I had to choose between giving up a good scoring wing over a good all-around point guard, I would give up the scoring wing without hesitation. I think you are underrating the value of actually having a point guard like Rondo who does literally everything on both ends (except shoot, obviously, but that's not what he's out there for anyway). You even agreed that it's not easier to replace a point guard than a wing scorer, so why would you give up the point?
