Not sire if that was to be in green font, but if not: Jim Moran, 6'6" small forward with zero NBA experience (though he did play professionally in Europe for 10 years where he averaged 2.3 reb/game). BNM
Dale Osbourne and Nate Tibbets works with the bigs too. But regardless, I'm of the opinion that Noah and Meyers just aren't that good. And no amount of coaching is going to turn those guys into starting level or even quality rotation players. Its up to them to apply the skills taught to them.
I like the kid....hope he beasts by allstar game but realistically, he's just simply not strong enough at the upper body or lower core to bang with NBA centers and at 19....that's not surprising...he'll benefit from training camp and practicing against Nurk, etc...as it is...Collins couldn't budge a Noah Vonleh out of post position and Noah isn't a center.....I think he's a great project though and will get up to speed quicker than some because he's a smart player and seems to be a quick study....Swanigan to me is closer to NBA ready.
Nurk really did help simplify things for Noah and they seemed to have good chemistry together. Not sure what that has to do about Noah's individual talent or the coaching staffs ability to develop players though.
So, another 6'6" guy and a 6'2" guy, neither with any experience playing in the NBA. How's that working out? How has Meyers Leonard's "progress" been since Kim Hughes was fired? How's Noah Vonleh's offensive game developing? Seriously, I'm sure all of Moran, Tibbetts and Osbourne are good coaches, but not one of them is a big man coach. Not one of them has ever had to defend or box out NBA big men. This is one area where I believe experience counts, and these guys between them have NONE. And it shows, just look at the results. I'm not saying fire any of these guys, just add a REAL big man coach to work with our FIVE 25 and younger big men. Why not? What can we possibly lose? As I've said, I'd love to see two full time big men coaches, one specializing in offense and one on defense working with our young guys year round. Collins and Swanigan likely aren't going to get a lot of PT this season, so practice time is going to be key to their development. I'd rather have then working with an experienced big man coach who has played the position than a 6'2" guy who may eventually make a good head coach, but has zero experience playing the position. Not doing so seems downright foolish to me. Why spend hundreds of millions of dollars in salaries for these guys, but cut corners when it comes to their development? Paul Allen has the money, there is no limit on how many assistant coaches you can have, or what you can pay them. They don't count against the salary cap or luxury cap. So, why not pay whatever it takes to get the best in the business? BNM
Not exactly, but you can look at his pre and post all star game splits at basketball-reference.com. Of course, they were better post-Nurkic, everyone's were. But, that still doesn't preclude the need for a big man coach. It's not like Noah developed into an all star playing next to Nurk. He was better, but imagine how much better he could have been if he'd been working with a big man coach for two solid years before Nurk joined the team. And then there is Meyers... He was actually showing progress under Kim Hughes and has absolutely fallen off a cliff since Hughes was fired. Now we also have Nurk, Collins and Swanigan. As talented as Nurk is, he could still use some work on his game. He's still turnover prone and shoots a fairly low percentage inside of 10 feet. The basic moves and talent are there, but but completing the move and making the shot without turning the ball over still need some work. It's not like he's a finished product at 22. Collins obviously needs to develop and Swanigan still has holes in his game, especially on defense. All FIVE of these guys could benefit from a good, experienced big man coach. BNM
Not the same thing. It may toughen him up, and that's a good thing, but it won't teach him low post foot work or defensive fundamentals. BNM
I could say the same thing about the teachings from a "big man coach". Instruction and information from a coach only goes so far. A players ability to take that and apply that to their game is a much larger determining factor in whether a player is bad/average/good in a certain area. And that ability is driven by a players feel/instincts/reaction time/pattern recognition skills etc., all areas of which Noah and Meyers have shown some level of deficiency in. And yes, Meyers has regressed since Hughes has left. I'm not sure why that has to be an indictment of Tibbets/Osbourne/Moran abilities as coaches. I could easily explain the regression on an outlier shooting year followed by an increased volume of 3pt attempts which his release speed/lack of shooting versatility couldn't support. Playing further away from the basket/playing with Ed Davis also could explain the rebounding drop-off. Then you add in the shoulder injury last year. I'm not trying to totally explain away the idea they coaching is why or bigs haven't developed as much as we'd like but that your argument as to why is a gross oversimplification of the situation.
And who does he credit for making him into an all star? Kim Hughes... BTW, Kaman has expressed no interest in coaching. I'm sure if Paul Allen threw enough money at him, he'd do it, but I'd prefer someone who actually WANTS to coach. BNM
So, what exactly is the downside of hiring a proven, experienced NBA big man coach? Hughes has successfully developed several several NBA big men (Kaman, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, LaMarcus Aldridge - yes, Aldridge posted career bests in both points and rebounding under Hughes). Since Hughes left, Meyers has gone down the toilet. And neither Vonleh nor Plumlee developed a single, reliable, repeatable offensive move. Even Aldridge doesn't look like the same player in SAS that he did his last two years in Portland (when was the last time a player went to SAS and got worse?). Sure it all comes down to the player, his talent, his motivation and his work ethic, but coaching matters. Again what would be the downside to hiring an experienced, proven NBA big man coach to tutor our young big men? BNM
I understand WHY they fired Kim Hughes...... but I really wish they hadn't. Or at least didn't fire him until they had an alternative.
This team really does make some perplexing decisions at times, or lack of a decision at all in the case of a big man coach. Their decisions really make me feel they are borderline inept at times - why would you have a bunch of promising forwards and no freaking big man coach? Why no veteran defender or defensive specialist to work with our team (especially the guards) It just defies logic and is hair pulling-ly frustrating. . .
Like, like, like, a million times like! I actually like Stotts and his staff, but they have their limits. Neil and Paul should realize this and make the appropriate hire. I like the idea of bringing in a true 3 & D guy to replace Crabbe's shooting, to add the perimeter D we are sorely and obviously lacking, and most of all act like a coach on the floor for our young guys. Gerald Henderson kind of filled that role when he was here. He seemed to bring the right level of focused intensity combined with a calming veteran presence. He played hard, but didn't lose his cool (well, except that time he got into it with Shaun Livingston, but I think that was intentional. Curry was out and I think Gerald was trying to bait Shaun into mixing it up so they would both get ejected - i.e. taking one for the team). I'm not sure how much of a leader Courtney Lee is, but he certainly would bring the 3 & D player we have been lacking since Wes ruptured his Achilles. The more I think about it, the more I'd like to try to get Jared Dudley from the Suns. He's a veteran 3 & D guy with a very high BBIQ. He will definitely have options once his playing days are over. I could see him in either a broadcasting, or a coaching role. He would fill the "coach on the floor" role quite nicely. BNM
Over two years later, two years of massive regression from Meyers and no offensive development from Noah, and they still haven't identified a replacement. This big man coach by a committee of small men just isn't cutting it. BNM
There isn't. I just don't subscribe to idea that Meyers and Noah's lack of progression or that none of our big man coaches are "big" is any kind of argument for bringing in someone to coach bigs specifically. Look around the league, it's a pretty rare thing. Ask any NBA coach and they'll say, "If you can coach, you can coach.", and I'm not going sit here and question our current coaches abilities when we have next to zero information to make any sort of definite conclusions. Plus, the summer is where these guys really make considerable improvements. A time where they are free to work with any trainer they'd like and have opportunities to participate in camps specifically geared towards skill development for bigs. Simply put, they have every chance to reach their full potential in this league and the reasons why most don't is a hell of a lot more complicated than who does or doesn't coach them.
