<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (grizz101 @ Mar 19 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>...because Shaq won the three finals mvp's and Kobe didn't.</div>If Jordan played with Shaq instead of Pippen, Shaq would have won 6 finals mvps instead of MJ.
The big difference is that the Lakers and Kobe one with a dominant big and Jordan had to play with Pippen, who was a great player, but demanded nowhere near the attention on D from other team's as Shaq and left him with many more shots.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Mar 19 2007, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How was Kobe not better than a fat egotistical baby who couldn't hit a f*cking freethrow. Here's a secret, the game isn't hard when all your shots are 3 feet from the basket.Again, this is not a Kobe/Jordan thread. It's designed to discuss why everybody acts like Jordan created the world.</div>He always seemed to hit him during the hack a Shaqs when the team really needed him. He may not be a good shooter like Kobe, but Kobe didn't have the ability to get those easy shots like Shaq did. Shaq was easily the most dominant player in his prime and was the leader and the best player of those Lakers team. Kobe was his sidekick.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (grizz101 @ Mar 19 2007, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Has Kobe Bryant ever won an NBA MVP?</div>He deserved it last year. You could make the argument that they only had 45 wins but even Jordan won MVP on a team that won 50 wins and was on a much more talented team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Jordan played with Shaq instead of Pippen, Shaq would have won 6 finals mvps instead of MJ.</div>Or they'd each have 5. I agree with what Cabang said too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He deserved it last year. You could make the argument that they only had 45 wins but even Jordan won MVP on a team that won 50 wins and was much more talented.</div>He was 4th place, he was a ballhog and his team sucked. He started passing and making his teammates better after the award was handed out. Dirk and LeBron both deserved it more than him and were higher in the voting too.Too harsh, but I'm tired of people saying that the award was stolen from him when he wasn't even close to winning it.LeBron has better overall stats and had a better team with only slightly better supporting cast. Nash put up great numbers and was pretty much a coach on a floor. Every player relied on him with Amare gone to get the offense going. Dirk, close numbers even though you really can't argue rebounds, but then you can't argue assists and steals for Kobe...and on a better team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (grizz101 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What does that prove about Kobe and Wilt, you just helped shaq's case</div>Not at all. Shaq is in a whole different era. Wilt was alot more dominant than Shaq. In his prime, Shaq was the most dominant big man in the game but Wilt in general was more talented. His ability to make freethrows, run the floor, and coexist with teammates makes him the better player. Wilt would be just as dominant if not more than Shaq in today's era because of his ability to knock down freethrows leading to no "hack-a-shaq"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He was 4th place, he was a ballhog and his team sucked. He started passing and making his teammates better after the award was handed out. Dirk and LeBron both deserved it more than him and were higher in the voting too.</div>He started passing more once the playoffs started. (before the award was passed out) the whole series last season would have given the MVP to Kobe if the Lakers won and give it to Nash is Pheonix won. Pheonix won. They clearly had a better team. The Lakers were inexperienced and young and had no playoff experience together before yet still took Pheonix to game 7 because of Kobe's leadership. Dirk and LeBron were both aheard of him but I don't believe deserved it more. This is mainly why I hate that the media votes for mvp and not players and coaches etc.
LeBron has better overall stats and had a better team with only slightly better supporting cast. Nash put up great numbers and was pretty much a coach on a floor. Every player relied on him with Amare gone to get the offense going. Dirk, close numbers even though you really can't argue rebounds, but then you can't argue assists and steals for Kobe...and on a better team.Added, I definitely think LeBron deserved it more.<strike>You guys took us that far because your big men were able to take advantage of both of our big men being out. Kwame is a terrible offensive player, but started off the series well because of that and that's a big reason you won. And then yall were awarded a game by the refs.</strike> <--Tired of saying that... Nash did win the series though anyway with a better, but shorthanded team...But the MVP is a regular season award anyway and just because he scored 81 and is in the record books doesn't mean he should've been MVP. Now that he is passing I think he should get an MVP in the near future. He is looking like a much better player now and I think he can make a real case for it next year and finish higher in the voting this year, 3rd, or possibly 2nd.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>LeBron has better overall stats and had a better team with only slightly better supporting cast. Nash put up great numbers and was pretty much a coach on a floor. Every player relied on him with Amare gone to get the offense going. Dirk, close numbers even though you really can't argue rebounds, but then you can't argue assists and steals for Kobe...and on a better team.Added, I definitely think LeBron deserved it more.<strike>You guys took us that far because your big men were able to take advantage of both of our big men being out. Kwame is a terrible offensive player, but started off the series well because of that and that's a big reason you won. And then yall were awarded a game by the refs.</strike> <--Tired of saying that... But the MVP is a regular season award anyway and just because he scored 81 and is in the record books doesn't mean he should've been MVP. Now that he is passing I think he should get an MVP in the near future. He is looking like a much better player now and I think he can make a real case for it next year and finish higher in the voting this year, 3rd, or possibly 2nd.</div>bullsh**. Luke's foot was inbounds when the jumpball was called, Kobe's dunk on Nash didn't have any true effect on the series and I would hardly call Kobe's heroics and Smush stealing the ball from Nash a game awarded from the refs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>bullsh**. Luke's foot was inbounds when the jumpball was called, Kobe's dunk on Nash didn't have a real effect on the series and I would hardly call Kobe's heroics and Smush stealing the ball from Nash a game awarded from the refs.</div>Luke's foot was out of bounds while he was tying up Nash and the refs missed that. Fact Nash was being fouled, educated opinion, Diaw was calling timeout right in front of the ref and Nash was calling a timeout too about 3-4 seconds before the jump ball, fact. I wasn't using that dunk as anything, that was an arguable call and I don't have a problem with it. I was also talking about James Jones also being obviously fouled when he was about to win it. There was another one, but it was too long ago to remember and the real MVP won the series. This shouldn't even be here since the MVP was decided before. I thought Kobe had a great series and was showing great leadership and distributing the ball, after the MVP award was given out. I give more credit for Phil Jackson outcoaching D'Antoni for those early wins though.
Besides, because MJ won more MVPs shouldn't mean Kobe is no where near him. If Kobe played in MJ's era instead of MJ, Kobe would win just as many mvps. Because of the fact that Michael came into the league first, he gets more credit which is unfair. Some people say that Kobe would not be the same player if MJ hadn't played first. I don't buy it. Kobe grew up watching Magic and Erving. He was a hardcore Magic fan and loved Erving because of his dad. He even said growing up he didn't like Jordan because he was a Magic fan. I don't know, I firmly believe clutch and talent wise Kobe is just as good as Michael. (referring to earlier in the thread)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Luke's foot was out of bounds while he was tying up Nash and the refs missed that. Fact Nash was being fouled, educated opinion, Diaw was calling timeout right in front of the ref and Nash was calling a timeout too about 3-4 seconds before the jump ball, fact. I wasn't using that dunk as anything, that was an arguable call and I don't have a problem with it. I was also talking about James Jones also being obviously fouled when he was about to win it. There was another one, but it was too long ago to remember and the real MVP won the series. This shouldn't even be here since the MVP was decided before. I thought Kobe had a great series and was showing great leadership and distributing the ball, after the MVP award was given out. I give more credit for Phil Jackson outcoaching D'Antoni for those early wins though.</div>Luke's foot was out of bounds while he was tying up Nash, but his foot was in bounds when the call was made. period. Nash was not fouled on that player either, believe me I watched it many many times. No foul and marginal contact. James Jones was fouled? Well, how about Kobe being smacked in the face in crunch time in game 1 with no call. Tim Thomas even admitted it. How about Kobe getting fouled on his game tying layup to send the game into overtime in game 4. (watch the play again) he is bumped while making the play. It amazes me that it even went in.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Besides, because MJ won more MVPs shouldn't mean Kobe is no where near him. If Kobe played in MJ's era instead of MJ, Kobe would win just as many mvps. Because of the fact that Michael came into the league first, he gets more credit which is unfair. Some people say that Kobe would not be the same player if MJ hadn't played first. I don't buy it. Kobe grew up watching Magic and Erving. He was a hardcore Magic fan and loved Erving because of his dad. He even said growing up he didn't like Jordan because he was a Magic fan. I don't know, I firmly believe clutch and talent wise Kobe is just as good as Michael. (referring to earlier in the thread)</div>He also grew up watching D'Antoni. :happy0144: I don't know if he would win as many....there were many great players back then. I'm not judging by MVP's though, I guess you weren't talking to me then...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He also grew up watching D'Antoni. :happy0144: I don't know if he would win as many....there were many great players back then. I'm not judging by MVP's though, I guess you weren't talking to me then...</div>I was mainly talking to Grizz.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (grizz101 @ Mar 19 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>...because Shaq won the three finals mvp's and Kobe didn't.</div>I never argue the fact that Shaq was the better player AT THE TIME. But we simply would not of won any titles without Kobe. Kind of like the Lakers aren't a contending team without Lamar Odom.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I never argue the fact that Shaq was the better player AT THE TIME. But we simply would not of won any titles without Kobe. Kind of like the Lakers aren't a contending team without Lamar Odom.</div>Eh. IMO Luke is more valuable than Lamar even though Lamar is a huge part of the team, especially rebounding. But they both have their specific roles and are definitely needed for this team to win.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I never argue the fact that Shaq was the better player AT THE TIME. But we simply would not of won any titles without Kobe. Kind of like the Lakers aren't a contending team without Lamar Odom.</div>Well yeah, take away the 2nd option on every championship team and I would be surprised to see many win it all...I'd be surprised to see 3 in the history of the league. Well of course some of those Boston teams and Lakers teams were loaded with talent at the time, but take away a Kareem or Magic for an entire season an I don't know. Not exactly sure who Boston's #2 guy was...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Eh. IMO Luke is more valuable than Lamar even though Lamar is a huge part of the team, especially rebounding. But they both have their specific roles and are definitely needed for this team to win.</div>Maybe. The main point I was trying to make was Shaq was the best player in the dynasty, but would not of won any titles without Kobe
