<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Mar 20 2007, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I sorta agree with you about Shaq demanding the ball more, but did you know that Shaq only took 2 more shots per game than Pippen? That's not much of a difference.</div>Well, that's good that you see my point but you can believe whatever you want to believe. All your opinion. :dribble: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>:bat:</div>I thought you would be praising me. Most members on this board would never admit they were wrong or give in to someone else even if they were completely wrong with no strong points to back it up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I thought you would be praising me. Most members on this board would never admit they were wrong or give in to someone else even if they were completely wrong with no strong points to back it up.</div>I was just fooling around, I respect you for admitting that you were wrong. You're one of the few to do so.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Mar 20 2007, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I was just fooling around, I respect you for admitting you were wrong. You're one of the few to do so.</div>That's what I'm talking about. :rock: lol
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Mar 19 2007, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Seriously, everybody acts as if he is some supreme being. He's not, and without his legendary coach and great teamates, he was nothing more than a great scorer. Why is it then, that he gets so blown up? Sure he was talented, clutch and dedicated, but he didn't change the game. The only thing he ever did was make the game popular. He doesn't hold that many records (only 4, compared to Wilt Chamberlain's 56), and he had a lot of help winning.</div> Wow....Michael Jordan didn't change the game....yeah ok...I'm going to ignore this thread....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Mar 20 2007, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow....Michael Jordan didn't change the game....yeah ok...I'm going to ignore this thread....</div>good idea
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 20 2007, 07:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Penny Hardaway? Eddie Jones?(when he was a Laker) Nick Van Exel? Kobe is not the only one.Did you even watch the Lakers in the playoffs at all? Kobe was basically what he has been doing this season. Passing the ball alot more. If that series showed anything about Kobe it's that he changed his game for the better of the team. There were games when Kobe only scored like 24 points and we won because Kobe was able to distribute more.EDIT: and if you believe LeBron is a better player than Kobe you are an ignorant fool.Oh yeah it was all Glen Rice.... Please. So we would have still won the championship without Kobe's heroics against the Pacers in the finals when Shaq fouled out and Kobe made multiple clutch threes and mid range jumpers to go along with some nice post moves. Kobe was unstoppable. Glen Rice might have been a big part of the team that year but he was still nothing but a cancer. Regardless, look at 2001 instead off 2000. Kobe was just as big a part of the team as Shaq was.Holy sh*t. Did you watch a game of Kobe this year or last year? First of all, Kobe averaged 35 ppg and 5 assists last season. Kobe is a good rebounder but only does when the team needs it. (like when Odom and Kwame went out) Or look at this season:30 ppg5.70 rebounds per game5.5 assists per gameYeah...not even close to Michael. </div>A couple things...Kobe did start passing but after the award was given out...Didn't the Lakers beat the Pacers in 5 or 6? So yeah I'm sure without a game of heroics from Kobe they still would have won.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 20 2007, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>A couple things...Kobe did start passing but after the award was given out...Didn't the Lakers beat the Pacers in 5 or 6? So yeah I'm sure without a game of heroics from Kobe they still would have won.</div>I am not going to start a whole new argument, just read the discussion me and Balla had. Peace. :dribble:EDIT: and Kobe started passing when the series started.
I know...and the MVP is really a regular season award...wasn't it given out pretty early in that series?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 20 2007, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I know...and the MVP is really a regular season award...wasn't it given out pretty early in that series?</div>It was Game 3 or 5...not exactly sure which...and yes the MVP is a regular season award.
My 2 cents:Kobe is the most Jordan-like player in the league. But to say that he is better is a huge lie. Both players make the players around them better. Both create their own shots much better, but Jordan was better, even if it was just a little better, at pretty much everything, compared to Kobe.Defense: JordanScoring: JordanPlaymaking: JordanTitles/Awards: JordanClutch Scoring: JordanDon't get me wrong though, Kobe has a lot of time left in his career.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Mar 19 2007, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Seriously, everybody acts as if he is some supreme being. He's not, and without his legendary coach and great teamates, he was nothing more than a great scorer. Why is it then, that he gets so blown up? Sure he was talented, clutch and dedicated, but he didn't change the game. The only thing he ever did was make the game popular. He doesn't hold that many records (only 4, compared to Wilt Chamberlain's 56), and he had a lot of help winning.</div>I agree with BCB, this comment is very far off, Jordan did change the game. He is the one that changed the game to being a guard heavy game the most. Kobe Bryant, Tracy Mcgrady, Dwayne Wade, Vince Carter, SO many people have grown up trying to be like him, and play like him it isn't even funny. Anytime you are the reason the game shifts to being a perimeter style game because of one player, that is changing the game. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ Mar 19 2007, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I try and watch every classic Bulls game, and ive probably seen 30 games of him. Hes not just great because of his teammates and coach....its probably vice versa, that they are better because of him. Reports and former players even said MJ coached just as much as Phil did in Chicago...I dont know how much of that is true..buts its been said.</div>He might have made his team a little better, but they easily made him better. Jordan was the scorer on that team, but I think people have this twisted view it was all him that made this team great, and that is wrong. Those 6 championship teams he was on, were all very very good teams. They had good defense, good rebounding, good shooting. What tells me about how great this team was, is how they still managed to be a championship contender, even after Jordan went to play baseball that one year. They won 55 games in the regular, two less than all of the season before, and they took the Knicks in the playoffs to a seven game series. That Knicks team was the team that made it out of the East that year. So this was an awesome team, that did everything else, and made Jordan have to mostly care about guarding his man and scoring. He didn't have to worry about much else because of the team he is on. Scottie Pippen was as valuable to those Bulls teams as Jordan was, I think they shared equal ownership there. Jordan just got recognition because he was the flashier player of the two.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Mar 19 2007, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How was Kobe not better than a fat egotistical baby who couldn't hit a f*cking freethrow. Here's a secret, the game isn't hard when all your shots are 3 feet from the basket.Again, this is not a Kobe/Jordan thread. It's designed to discuss why everybody acts like Jordan created the world.</div>When you can easily dominate any player that has ever played this game shooting 3 feet from the basket, then there isn't much need to do much else. That is after all the easiest place to score from, and being able to get easy shots next to the basket is part of playing basketball. So I really don't see how you would count this against Shaq. But for your edification Yes, Shaq was the better player for those teams, and he was the one that pushed those Lakers teams to winning titles. His impact on the game is still greater than just about anyone elses impact in the game today. Just look at what the Heat are doing this year now that he has come back from injury. His dominance, and ability to open things up for other players was what drove that Lakers team to the finals.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Mar 20 2007, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with BCB, this comment is very far off, Jordan did change the game. He is the one that changed the game to being a guard heavy game the most. Kobe Bryant, Tracy Mcgrady, Dwayne Wade, Vince Carter, SO many people have grown up trying to be like him, and play like him it isn't even funny. Anytime you are the reason the game shifts to being a perimeter style game because of one player, that is changing the game.</div> Not to mention the effect he's had on endorsements/marketing in all of sports.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Mar 20 2007, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jordan played better defense. More clutch. More Rings. Didn't have a Shaq. Better passer.Enough said. Shut your trap.</div>I don't remember Jordan winning a ring by himself and having his teammates give up on him. Also Jordan played in a different league. Kobe wouldn't have won a championship without Shaq? Well if he never had Shaq he would have been expected to be the man from youth just like Jordan was.his numbers would be better and a team would have been built around him. Shaq also never won a ring without Kobe until this year and D.Wade won them that ring by doing what he does now shoot free throws.... If you knew anything about the Lakers championship 3-peat run you would realize excluding the Finals Kobe was just as important if not more so than Shaq. He hit all the shots down in the 4th quarter and handled the ball and facilitated the offense. Kobe and Horry made the big shots. When the Finals came around Shaq beat up on mediocre eastern centers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brando @ Mar 22 2007, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't remember Jordan winning a ring by himself and having his teammates give up on him. Also Jordan played in a different league. Kobe wouldn't have won a championship without Shaq? Well if he never had Shaq he would have been expected to be the man from youth just like Jordan was.his numbers would be better and a team would have been built around him. Shaq also never won a ring without Kobe until this year and D.Wade won them that ring by doing what he does now shoot free throws.... If you knew anything about the Lakers championship 3-peat run you would realize excluding the Finals Kobe was just as important if not more so than Shaq. He hit all the shots down in the 4th quarter and handled the ball and facilitated the offense. Kobe and Horry made the big shots. When the Finals came around Shaq beat up on mediocre eastern centers.</div>I'm sorry, but saying that Kobe was just as important, if not more so than Shaq is just a ridiculous statement. In high school your guards play is usually more important, in college a mixture of both is important, come NBA your big man play is 9 out of 10 times more important than any thing else. Kobe handled the ball and facilitated the offense sure, he did that in stretchs, Shaq controlled the paint, controlled the boards, drew all the double teams, and created offense for the rest of the team. His double teams allowed him to pass out, and the ball to go in motion to find the open man. Kobe got to face lots of man to man, because the double teams were on Shaq and not Kobe during that championship run. The most important member of that team was by far Shaq during that 3 championship run.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Mar 19 2007, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How was Kobe not better than a fat egotistical baby who couldn't hit a f*cking freethrow. Here's a secret, the game isn't hard when all your shots are 3 feet from the basket.Again, this is not a Kobe/Jordan thread. It's designed to discuss why everybody acts like Jordan created the world.</div>Then why didn't Kobe shoot from three feet? Shaq's combination of size, and athletism made him great. If Shaq was really dedicated he could've been the GOAT by far unquestioined. Unfortuantely that's not the case and Shaq is pretty lazy. However Shaq was the unquestioned best player on the Laker Championship teams. He won the MVPs, he was the guy teams focused on. Even when focused on he couldn't be stopped however. Shaq in his Prime (00) was probably the most unstoppable force the game has ever seen in the modern era of basketball. Dude you need to get the taste of Kobes semen out of your mouth and realize Shaq was reason number one they won the titles. Theres a reason Kobe has yet to get out of the first round without Shaq and why Shaq has been fighting for a title every year of his career minus his rookie season.
Some people just don't know basketball on this site, sorry. They are on Kobe's dick. They need to come to the fact that Jordan revolutionized the game of basketball..End of story.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Mar 23 2007, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Some people just don't know basketball on this site, sorry. They are on Kobe's dick. They need to come to the fact that Jordan revolutionized the game of basketball..End of story.</div>Some people (like you) hate on Kobe every chance you get and when people cheer him on or he does something amazing you downgrade it and say we are on Kobe's dick. Well, ok mr. kobe basher, not only are the Laker fans cheering him on, so is the rest of the site. Kobe is not as good as Micheal Jordan but is definitely the better shooter. Just better from the perimeter...but MJ is the better defender. Who was your post directed at? Nobody is saying Kobe is an overall better player than MJ right now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 23 2007, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Some people (like you) hate on Kobe every chance you get and when people cheer him on or he does something amazing you downgrade it and say we are on Kobe's dick. Well, ok mr. kobe basher, not only are the Laker fans cheering him on, so is the rest of the site. Kobe is not as good as Micheal Jordan but is definitely the better shooter. Just better from the perimeter...but MJ is the better defender. Who was your post directed at? Nobody is saying Kobe is an overall better player than MJ right now.</div>It wasn't directed at you, but you can be like that sometimes along with Kobe Bryant 24, but in this case I was directing it at Michael Bryant...Anyway, Kobe is a great player. I'm not downgrading that one bit. But Jordan did it by himself...people don't realize that. Kobe has YET to win a ring without Shaq, and don't give me the bull he has no one on his team, but neither did Jordan.Ok, ok...Here comes the Kobe lovers comment: "He had Pippen!" Well guess what? Pippen isn't one of the most dominant Centers of all time. In fact, he was one of the more overrated players of the generation! When Jordan retired and played baseball, Scottie Pippen was Pathetic. With a capital P.Jordan could have put up 60 any night he wanted to do, but instead he put up 30, grabbed 5 boards, dished out 5 assists, and in the mean time was probably the NBA's best defender...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Mar 23 2007, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok, ok...Here comes the Kobe lovers comment: "He had Pippen!" Well guess what? Pippen isn't one of the most dominant Centers of all time. In fact, he was one of the more overrated players of the generation! When Jordan retired and played baseball, Scottie Pippen was Pathetic. With a capital P.Jordan could have put up 60 any night he wanted to do, but instead he put up 30, grabbed 5 boards, dished out 5 assists, and in the mean time was probably the NBA's best defender...</div>He had Pippen!...is right. Pippen is not one of the most dominant centers of all-time? Well, obviously. Why are you bringing Shaq in to this conversation? Shaq is not on this team anymore? We are talking about the Kobe led Lakers and MJ led Bulls. and yes those Bulls were WAY WAY WAY better. They won 72 games in a season and won 6 nba championships. Oh and Pippen is one of the 50 greatest players of all-time. He is a phenomanal player...just look at his stats the year Jordan left and played baseball. He led that Bulls team to the playoffs on his own. You are comparing this Laker team to those Bulls...that is a joke..and then when you know I am going to bring up Pippen and the rest of the Bulls you counter and bring up Shaq...when we are not talking about the Kobe-Shaq Lakers. You are pathetic. Jordan put up 30, 5 and 5? Look at Kobe's stats right now on his player page. BTW read Balla and my discussion...it is similar.
