Sounds to me like that's the aspect of the rule that Blue disagrees with and would like to have changed. I can't say I disagree with him. Bad technique shouldn't necessarily be illegal (IMO).
I think you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about. I never said EITHER of those things.
Show me a defender maintaining verticality while closing out on a shooter*. It. Doesn't. Happen. *Again, I'm talking jumpers not drives.
If I were present with you now, I could explain this better but here is the verticality rule. You own your spot from the floor to the ceiling. If I jump above you, I'm not legal.
I happens every game. And I know you're not talking about drives. A proper closeout does NOT require a player to leave his feet. When you see a player jumping and lunging at a shooter they are ALWAYS out of position. Fundamentals.
Nobody is disputing that. But you seem to be saying if a defender jumps into the space to the side of a stationary offensive player that the offensive player also owns that space. And that's not right.
Dog, you're on some weird shit. Bottom line: A guy can jump in any direction they want. It's on the defense to remain legal. First rule of Defense = STAY ON YOUR FEET.
And yet THAT happens EVERY game. And it's by design. Defenders sag towards the middle giving space to weakside players, and then closeout if that player gets the ball and goes into a shooting motion. Sometimes they read the play quickly and are able to stay on the ground on their close out, sometimes they're a little late and their guy is already in a shooting motion so they jump to get a hand in their face. According to you they shouldn't even attempt to get a hand in the shooter's face. Sure, in an ideal game each defender stays stuck to their assignment's hip and never has to close out. But that literally never happens.
No, what I'm saying is, when you teach closing out, you teach a player to sit down with his arms raised. That way you can defend the show and go as well as the shot. When you see a guy jumping and lunging, it's because he's out of position. That player should not be rewarded, rather, he should be penalized for playing bad D. And he is if the offensive player jumps.
The "penalty" is that he's late and the shooter gets a cleaner look. He shouldn't be further penalized for attempting to affect the shot...and he most definitely should attempt to get a hand in the shooter's face. And you do that by jumping to the side of the shooter or by ensuring you'll land short before running into the shooter. You must have been upset about the rule change on rip-throughs and leg-kicks, because that limits the freedom of movement of the offensive player. And the movement in those actions is actually contained to space they already occupy, unlike jumping sideways into space you don't occupy. Luckily the issue isn't rampant, but rather confined to a few players...although I've noticed Dame add it to his game which is both good/bad. If the league is going to reward bitchass play then I want our players to benefit from it too. But just like they changed the rules on kicks/rips, I think they should change the rule on offense-initiated contact on unnatural jumpers. The previous rule changes didn't ruin the game - they improved it. Same would be the case here.
It sounds like your issue with certain plays is what goal the offensive player has when they attempt the shot. If the goal is "Put the basketball in the basket to earn points", you're happy with actions that help with that goal. But if the goal is "get the ref to call a foul so I can earn my points at the line" you're not happy with that. It's more philosophical than technical in that regard. You're arguing philosophy, and dviss is arguing technical rules interpretation... letter of the law versus spirit of the law.
I think that mostly you're correct. Any jump shot taken without the goal to be to make the shot is bullshit. I'm more lenient with regards to post-play/lay-ups - you should still be focused on making a legit attempt at scoring, but attempting to draw a foul is a bonus. Any offensive play that isn't a legit attempt to put the ball through the hoop isn't basketball IMO.
I agree with this to a point. If the defender jumps but is traveling/landing outside the offensive players should width at the time, leaning towards that path by the offensive player shouldn't be rewarded with a foul. At must, it shouldn't be a shooting foul, since it's an unnatural shooting motion.
