<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Well Kobe shouldn't let his mentality get in the way. He is probably the most talented player as shown by these last 4 games but that is not enough. You got to show consistency mentality and everything. Jordan did and that's why he shot 50%. Also I agree with you Ballahollic on Melo's weaknesses. I just get irritated with Kobe is God or Kobe is Jordan comments that no other players get talked like that.</div>Kobe Bryant IS consistent, I don't see how you could possibly see otherwise. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Jordan did</div>Jordan won his titles without talent? I guess Pippen, Rodman, and Phil Jackson had nothing to do with it then?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>But, I feel he is too one demensional, and hasn't accomplished enough to be on the level of Jordan. If he won even 1 NBA ring with just a swingman like Jordan had, I'd give him alot more props.</div>One dimensional? Wow... Kobe Bryant is one of the most all-around players in NBA history. He plays defense, rebounds the ball well, has good court vision, Kobe does a bit of everything on the court. He's far from one dimensional. One thing that always makes me laugh about Kobe Bryant haters is the fact that most of them are Michael Jordan fans. I want to know, how can you be a huge fan of Michael Jordan's game but not Kobe's? They are extremely similar on the court, Jordan and Kobe's playing style are nearly identical.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Mar 24 2007, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jordan did.Edit - for the record, I'm not saying Kobe isn't great.He is. No doubt about it.But, I feel he is too one demensional, and hasn't accomplished enough to be on the level of Jordan. If he won even 1 NBA ring with just a swingman like Jordan had, I'd give him alot more props.</div>As Tony said he's very far from one dimensional, he is arguebely the best permiter defender in the league. BTW give kobe Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman in their primes and I assure you another chip would be in his hands. BTW what is with you and jordan my god.
[quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316776' date='Mar 25 2007, 05:02 AM']Kobe Bryant IS consistent, I don't see how you could possibly see otherwise.[/quote] If not shooting over 50% or over in 7 straight games and than have 4 remarkable games is consistent than there is no such thing as inconsistent. [quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316776' date='Mar 25 2007, 05:02 AM']Jordan won his titles without talent? I guess Pippen, Rodman, and Phil Jackson had nothing to do with it then?[/quote] Pippen is no where near Shaq's level. Rodman was very solid and Jordan didn't have him in the first 3 championships.[quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316776' date='Mar 25 2007, 05:02 AM']One dimensional? Wow... Kobe Bryant is one of the most all-around players in NBA history. He plays defense, rebounds the ball well, has good court vision, Kobe does a bit of everything on the court. He's far from one dimensional.[/quote] Actually his court vision is one of his weaknesses. Rebounding? When? I'll give it to him that he plays solid defense occasionally but that isn't consistent either. [quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316776' date='Mar 25 2007, 05:02 AM']One thing that always makes me laugh about Kobe Bryant haters is the fact that most of them are Michael Jordan fans. I want to know, how can you be a huge fan of Michael Jordan's game but not Kobe's? They are extremely similar on the court, Jordan and Kobe's playing style are nearly identical.[/quote]Here we go again with the Kobe/Jordan comparisons. The style is similar but Jordan easily takes it to another level. He is more explosive and a more intelligent player. Jordan doesn't settle for 3's as much as Kobe also. Jordan is more like a better shooting Wade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Mar 24 2007, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If not shooting over 50% or over in 7 straight games and than have 4 remarkable games is consistent than there is no such thing as inconsistent. Pippen is no where near Shaq's level. Rodman was very solid and Jordan didn't have him in the first 3 championships. Actually his court vision is one of his weaknesses. Rebounding? When? I'll give it to him that he plays solid defense occasionally but that isn't consistent either. Here we go again with the Kobe/Jordan comparisons. The style is similar but Jordan easily takes it to another level. He is more explosive and a more intelligent player. Jordan doesn't settle for 3's as much as Kobe also. Jordan is more like a better shooting Wade.</div>Ok and your point is? Nobody is going to be the exact same as Jordan. However Kobe is incredibly similar. Both are/were the most talented and versatile scorers in the league during their prime, both are capable of shutting any superstar down, both have that killer instinct, both are two of the clutchest players of all time, both have great leadership skills and can take over any game they want, etc. I could go on about it. Nobody will ever be the exact same as Jordan but Kobe s certaintly the closest thing to him.
Your going to bring up 7 bad games out of an 82 game season? That's a desperate and failed attempt to make Kobe look bad. Since when is it understood that shooting guards have to shoot over 50% from the field to be considered consistent? It's incredibly hard to shoot over 50% when you're taking the amount of shot attempts each game that Kobe does. The guys you mentioned in your earlier post would never shoot 50% taking the same amount of shots as Kobe. Another thing that you have failed to understand is the difficulty of Kobe's shots, 90% of the shots he takes are being heavily contested by the defense. Guards aren't expected to shoot over 50% on a daily basis, if you expect them to then you must not watch enough basketball.Would you like to hear some of the names of great NBA guards who shot under 50% during their career? Rick Barry, Dominique Wilkins, Scottie Pippen, Larry Bird, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Reggie Miller, Elgin Baylor, Bob Cousy, Clyde Drexler, the names could go on forever. Are you saying that all of those guys are inconstant as well? Why are you bringing Kobe into this argument? I was disagreeing with Mardy that Jordan didn't have much talent when he won his titles. Kobe Bryant has nothing to do with that, you brought him into it for no reason. I never said Pippen was on Shaqs level, obviously. 1. So now Kobe Bryant has bad court vision? Have you ever seen the Lakers play? Kobe has very good court vision, his passing ability has always impressed me.2. Kobe Bryant is an excellent rebounder for a guard, he still goes out there and grabs 5 boards per night even though he's busy doing everything else on the court. The fact that Kobe can play great defense, score 30 points, dish 5 assists, and still manage to get 5 rebounds is impressive. If you don't consider that being a good rebounder, then you have issues. You love to twist words around don't you? Nobody is trying to say that Kobe is better than Jordan, I said that they had similar playing styles. Nobody in NBA history comes closer to Jordan's playing style than Kobe Bryant does. You will never understand it, just give it up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Mar 24 2007, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If not shooting over 50% or over in 7 straight games and than have 4 remarkable games is consistent than there is no such thing as inconsistent. Pippen is no where near Shaq's level. Rodman was very solid and Jordan didn't have him in the first 3 championships. Actually his court vision is one of his weaknesses. Rebounding? When? I'll give it to him that he plays solid defense occasionally but that isn't consistent either. Here we go again with the Kobe/Jordan comparisons. The style is similar but Jordan easily takes it to another level. He is more explosive and a more intelligent player. Jordan doesn't settle for 3's as much as Kobe also. Jordan is more like a better shooting Wade.</div>Why are you bringing Shaq into the argument? We are comparing the Kobe led Lakers and MJ led Bulls. You expect Kobe to shoot over 50 percent every night? Jesus christ....The guy is a remarkable player but nobody but Jordan can shoot over 50 percent and shoot as much as Kobe does. Kobe is a very good rebounder and he does have great court vision. Kobe is a great passer when he is called upon to be the facilitator. Did you see the first half of the season for Kobe? Kobe is alot better from the perimeter than Jordan so he does settle for threes, but you know what...Kobe makes them. Wait...so you won't compare Kobe to MJ but you will Wade? You are a complete dunce.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Mar 25 2007, 06:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok and your point is? Nobody is going to be the exact same as Jordan. However Kobe is incredibly similar. Both are/were the most talented and versatile scorers in the league during their prime, both are capable of shutting any superstar down, both have that killer instinct, both are two of the clutchest players of all time, both have great leadership skills and can take over any game they want, etc. I could go on about it. Nobody will ever be the exact same as Jordan but Kobe s certaintly the closest thing to him.</div>When you got the most dominant big man on your team of all-time than it is not impressive that Kobe won those 3 titles. Kobe could never do with a swingman like Jordan did. Kobe is not close to the level of Jordan. No one is. Kobe might try to imitate Jordan but fails clearly.
[quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316825' date='Mar 25 2007, 06:32 AM']Your going to bring up 7 bad games out of an 82 game season? That's a desperate and failed attempt to make Kobe look bad. Since when is it understood that shooting guards have to shoot over 50% from the field to be considered consistent? It's incredibly hard to shoot over 50% when you're taking the amount of shot attempts each game that Kobe does. The guys you mentioned in your earlier post would never shoot 50% taking the same amount of shots as Kobe. Another thing that you have failed to understand is the difficulty of Kobe's shots, 90% of the shots he takes are being heavily contested by the defense. Guards aren't expected to shoot over 50% on a daily basis, if you expect them to then you must not watch enough basketball.[/quote] I didn't say he had to average 50% but not able to reach 50% once in 7 straight games shows he is NOT consistent. [quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316825' date='Mar 25 2007, 06:32 AM']Would you like to hear some of the names of great NBA guards who shot under 50% during their career? Rick Barry, Dominique Wilkins, Scottie Pippen, Larry Bird, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Reggie Miller, Elgin Baylor, Bob Cousy, Clyde Drexler, the names could go on forever. Are you saying that all of those guys are inconstant as well?[/quote] Once again I didn't say he had to reach 50% overall.[quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316825' date='Mar 25 2007, 06:32 AM']Why are you bringing Kobe into this argument? I was disagreeing with Mardy that Jordan didn't have much talent when he won his titles. Kobe Bryant has nothing to do with that, you brought him into it for no reason. I never said Pippen was on Shaqs level, obviously.[/quote] You mentioned that Kobe is the closest to Jordan and I would have to disagree. Kobe is a wannabe Jordan.[quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316825' date='Mar 25 2007, 06:32 AM']1. So now Kobe Bryant has bad court vision? Have you ever seen the Lakers play? Kobe has very good court vision, his passing ability has always impressed me.[/quote] Passing is a big part of court vision and the amount of attention Kobe gets you would think passing would be easy for him but it isn't. [quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316825' date='Mar 25 2007, 06:32 AM']2. Kobe Bryant is an excellent rebounder for a guard, he still goes out there and grabs 5 boards per night even though he's busy doing everything else on the court. The fact that Kobe can play great defense, score 30 points, dish 5 assists, and still manage to get 5 rebounds is impressive. If you don't consider that being a good rebounder, then you have issues.[/quote] 5 rebounds in 40+ minutes is not impressive. Anyone in the league can do that.[quote name='BALLAHOLLIC?' post='316825' date='Mar 25 2007, 06:32 AM']You love to twist words around don't you? Nobody is trying to say that Kobe is better than Jordan, I said that they had similar playing styles. Nobody in NBA history comes closer to Jordan's playing style than Kobe Bryant does. You will never understand it, just give it up.[/quote]No you don't understand.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 25 2007, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why are you bringing Shaq into the argument? We are comparing the Kobe led Lakers and MJ led Bulls. You expect Kobe to shoot over 50 percent every night? Jesus christ....The guy is a remarkable player but nobody but Jordan can shoot over 50 percent and shoot as much as Kobe does. Kobe is a very good rebounder and he does have great court vision. Kobe is a great passer when he is called upon to be the facilitator. Did you see the first half of the season for Kobe? Kobe is alot better from the perimeter than Jordan so he does settle for threes, but you know what...Kobe makes them. Wait...so you won't compare Kobe to MJ but you will Wade? You are a complete dunce.</div>Kobe doesn't have the athleticism of Jordan. The comparisons end because Kobe is much more 3 point oriented and has no where the speed that Jordan. Wade is like Jordan because they are relentless going to the basket. Jordan though has the best of both worlds. I guess Ray Allen is greater than Kobe to since he shoots 3's better.
I love it! The Kobe fans here DON'T WANT TO BRING SHAQ in the CONVERSATION, YET THEY LOVE TO SAY "HE HAD PIPPEN! HE HAD RODMAN!" BUT WANT TO COMPLETELY IGNORE SHAQUILLE O'NEAL.Kobe isn't on the level of Jordan's defense, give me a f*cking break. He doesn't have NEAR THE COURT VISION Jordan had, and Jordan got players involved WAY more. He made Scottie Pippen. He made Dennis Rodman a half way decent player. He MADE Phil Jackson's career.I believe mavsfan1000 speaks for me. Kobe is a terrific player, with a ton of talent obviously, and the Lakers would be NO WHERE with out him...that's not my point. He just isn't ON THE LEVEL of a Michael Jordan...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Mar 25 2007, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love it! The Kobe fans here DON'T WANT TO BRING SHAQ in the CONVERSATION, YET THEY LOVE TO SAY "HE HAD PIPPEN! HE HAD RODMAN!" BUT WANT TO COMPLETELY IGNORE SHAQUILLE O'NEAL.Kobe isn't on the level of Jordan's defense, give me a f*cking break. He doesn't have NEAR THE COURT VISION Jordan had, and Jordan got players involved WAY more. He made Scottie Pippen. He made Dennis Rodman a half way decent player. He MADE Phil Jackson's career.I believe mavsfan1000 speaks for me. Kobe is a terrific player, with a ton of talent obviously, and the Lakers would be NO WHERE with out him...that's not my point. He just isn't ON THE LEVEL of a Michael Jordan...</div>If you actually think Jordan made Phil Jacksons, Scottie Pippen, and Dennis Rodmans HOF careers you're an idiot. I'm sure he had an impact on them but Pip is one of the greatest swing man of all time and Dennis Rodman was an unstopable rebounder with other teams to.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Mar 25 2007, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love it! The Kobe fans here DON'T WANT TO BRING SHAQ in the CONVERSATION, YET THEY LOVE TO SAY "HE HAD PIPPEN! HE HAD RODMAN!" BUT WANT TO COMPLETELY IGNORE SHAQUILLE O'NEAL.Kobe isn't on the level of Jordan's defense, give me a f*cking break. He doesn't have NEAR THE COURT VISION Jordan had, and Jordan got players involved WAY more. He made Scottie Pippen. He made Dennis Rodman a half way decent player. He MADE Phil Jackson's career.I believe mavsfan1000 speaks for me. Kobe is a terrific player, with a ton of talent obviously, and the Lakers would be NO WHERE with out him...that's not my point. He just isn't ON THE LEVEL of a Michael Jordan...</div>Wow. We don't bring Shaq into the conversation because we are comparing the Jordan led Bulls and Kobe led Lakers...why would you bring Shaq in?Jordan did not MAKE Phil Jackson, Pippen, and Rodman. Rodman was a great rebounder and defensive player before he got there...Pippen showed he could carry the team on his own when MJ retired to play baseball. We are not saying that Kobe is on Jordan's level. But he is the closest thing. If you don't believe that you need to ask yourself a question. Does ignorant hate have to do with it?
Kobe with 21 at the half, could very well have 50 again. Didn't shoot much in the second had 17 in the first. This is gonna be interesting.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I didn't say he had to average 50% but not able to reach 50% once in 7 straight games shows he is NOT consistent.</div>Again, your bringing up 7 games out of an 82 game season. Shooting 47% for the season proves that he IS consistent. You have to think about what he has been doing the entire season, which you're not doing.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You mentioned that Kobe is the closest to Jordan and I would have to disagree. Kobe is a wannabe Jordan</div>If you honestly don't think that Kobe and Jordan have similar playing styles, then you need to watch more basketball. Heres something I want you to watch, don't just skim through it. Watch the entire thing, it gets better as it goes on.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJcLTPiZdV0<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>5 rebounds in 40+ minutes is not impressive. Anyone in the league can do that</div>It's impressive when your doing everything else on the court as well. I feel dumber responding to your posts, much like everybody else does.
Mavsfan usually leaves a lot to be desired with his arguments. For instance.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>5 rebounds in 40+ minutes is not impressive. Anyone in the league can do that</div>Anyone? Way to leave that one open. I think 5 rebounds is not shabby coming from a guard. For a guy doing a lot of things on the court and simply can drift away from rebounding and stay perimeter oriented. Snagging 5 rebounds is not bad.And it's better than most guards in the league. Yet you say anyone can do it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Mar 26 2007, 03:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, your bringing up 7 games out of an 82 game season. Shooting 47% for the season proves that he IS consistent. You have to think about what he has been doing the entire season, which you're not doing.</div> It was not just me picking 7 games. It was 7 straight games which means he goes in droughts (sp.). Consistent players don't have much of these. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Mar 26 2007, 03:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you honestly don't think that Kobe and Jordan have similar playing styles, then you need to watch more basketball. Heres something I want you to watch, don't just skim through it. Watch the entire thing, it gets better as it goes on.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJcLTPiZdV0</div> Yawn. Vince Carter also looks great in highlights. It's not all about the flashiest plays. Kobe does play similar to Jordan and so does Wade. Obviously some people on here are really sensitive about Kobe getting criticized. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Mar 26 2007, 03:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's impressive when your doing everything else on the court as well. I feel dumber responding to your posts, much like everybody else does.</div>5 rebounds is respectful but nothing outstanding. Obviously you are a big fan of Kobe so sorry if I struck any nerves with my comments. Kobe is a great offensive player and he is on fire right now but I'm not ready to call him one of the greatest ever.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Mar 25 2007, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It was not just me picking 7 games. It was 7 straight games which means he goes in droughts (sp.). Consistent players don't have much of these. Yawn. Vince Carter also looks great in highlights. It's not all about the flashiest plays. Kobe does play similar to Jordan and so does Wade. Obviously some people on here are really sensitive about Kobe getting criticized. 5 rebounds is respectful but nothing outstanding. Obviously you are a big fan of Kobe so sorry if I struck any nerves with my comments. Kobe is a great offensive player and he is on fire right now but I'm not ready to call him one of the greatest ever.</div>Your argument for not calling him one of the great is that he shoots 47% sometimes and not 50%....wow.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>It was not just me picking 7 games. It was 7 straight games which means he goes in droughts (sp.). Consistent players don't have much of these.</div>So you leave a little leeway, meaning Kobe can have some of these droughts you say.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>It was not just me picking 7 games. It was 7 straight games which means he goes in droughts (sp.). Consistent players don't have much of these.</div>And the other 56 games where he shot 47% mean nothing? Every player has shooting slumps they fall into, you're making it seem like this is the first time it's happened<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Yawn. Vince Carter also looks great in highlights. It's not all about the flashiest plays. Kobe does play similar to Jordan and so does Wade. Obviously some people on here are really sensitive about Kobe getting criticized.</div>It's fine to criticize him, but you're doing it in a biased way. You're not making any sense, you don't have any valid points.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>5 rebounds is respectful but nothing outstanding. Obviously you are a big fan of Kobe so sorry if I struck any nerves with my comments. Kobe is a great offensive player and he is on fire right now but I'm not ready to call him one of the greatest ever.</div>So, now it's respectful? Before you said that anybody could do it, which way are you going to go? I'm done arguing with you, you don't have anything other than nonsense to back up your points. I feel dumber by responding to your horrible posts, so I'm not going to do it. You can feel free to keep replying all you want, but you wont get a response from me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Mar 26 2007, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So, now it's respectful? Before you said that anybody could do it, which way are you going to go? I'm done arguing with you, you don't have anything other than nonsense to back up your points. I feel dumber by responding to your horrible posts, so I'm not going to do it. You can feel free to keep replying all you want, but you wont get a response from me.</div>Is there really that much difference between respectful and anyone can do it that gets 40+ minutes? Kobe is just slightly above average as a rebounder to other starting shooting guards. I am not doing this in a biased way or at least trying not to. I don't dislike Kobe. I dislike oversensitive fans of any player or team though. I will do the same though and not make any more responses about Kobe though it goes against my nature of wanting to get in the last word. Before I end it tell me what doesn't make sense? I agree that in some way everyone goes in slumps but some slumps are more extreme than others. Maybe if you look at his overall season averages than it is consistent as he is making a good percentage of his shots but if you go game by game than it is pretty extreme. He is either on or off a lot of the time. When he's on everyone is saying how great he is and than when he's off hardly any conversation about him. Hopefully that last part cleared some things up.
