When adjusting for three pointers, Steve Nash's assists provide 25.7 ppg for his team. This compares with Deron Williams' 20.6, Kidd with 20.285, 19.8 for chris paul, and 19.1 for BD. This is miles ahead of anybody else, clearly. But assists are obviously not everything.The combination of 25.7 ppg from assists and 19.1 ppg from points is clearly the best in the league, and some of the best efficiency.But what about the fact that Phoenix' pace is faster?That is why 82games game up with a fascinating new stat that is FGM+ASTs/TMFGM to show percentage of team offensive production. Nash is responsible for an incredible 58.6% of his team's field goal made, to lead the league. As we all know, percentage is not pace influenced.So it begs the question: Can a guy averaging 19 ppg be the best offensive player in the league? Even if he's the best passer and best shooter in the league?
No way. You seriously believe Steve Nash is a better offensive player than Kobe? You dam right this is a bad time to say something that ridiculous. Kobe is out scoring 50 ppg over the last 4 games. How is Kobe not the best player in the league, rather scorer. Steve Nash is the one making the rest of the team and getting them the ball in the right spots...that doesn't mean he's a better offensive player. He may be responsible for getting the ball in his teammates hands but he's not the one shooting the ball. That is just dumb if you are crediting all the points to Nash just because he passes them the ball. Kobe can be considered one of the best scoring guards to ever play the game. Right behind Jordan.
offense isn't just scoringjust as kobe outscores nash 31-19 points per game, nash out passes kobe for 26-13 points per game.it's very close, 45-44 points they're responsible for. And Nash is more efficient. The thread was to provoke debate, not to voice my opinion.
If we're talking about the best all-around offensive player in the league, then I would have to say no, because that title belongs to Kobe. However, if we're talking about the player who is responsible for the most scoring output of his team, then Nash has to be up there, and I'd put him at the top. He scores, he sets people up, he controls the tempo... how can he not be the best in that aspect?
Assists are part of offense. Scoring isn't the only aspect of offense. Nash and Kobe are very good offensively, I think they are the 2 best in the league. If you take both of their points and assists Nash is worth about 45 points while Kobe is worth about 43. Scoring is overrated, people are in awe when Kobe scores 45 and has about 3 assists, but no one even mentions it when Nash has 18 points and 15 assists, which is a better game. Nash's field goal % is 7% higher, he is the better free throw shooter, this year is the only time recently that Kobe has been close, and in 3-point shooting Nash is shooting 11% higher than Kobe. Nash has also been just as clutch as Kobe this season whether you want to admit it or not. If you look at the numbers it would clearly be Nash so it's not a stupid argument whatsoever, BUT I do realize that the Suns uptempo pace and the talent he has around him does help. Unfortunately though, most of this talent on the team, besides Amare, rely on him and so does the coach. D'Antoni says he calls plays less than 1/4 of the time that Nash is on the floor. Phil Jackson controls the offense more with the Triangle. Nash has more control over a team's offense than any other player in the league and that's a fact. He creates easy shots for players and even though the players score most of their points on their own, Nash makes everything run more smoothly and the easy shots or dunks they get gets the players in rhythm and it makes them perform better. Assists are just as important, if not more important than points. I think they are equal offensively, but Kobe is the better player because he's more athletically gifted and a much better defensive player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Mar 25 2007, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If we're talking about the best all-around offensive player in the league, then I would have to say no, because that title belongs to Kobe. However, if we're talking about the player who is responsible for the most scoring output of his team, then Nash has to be up there, and I'd put him at the top. He scores, he sets people up, he controls the tempo... how can he not be the best in that aspect?</div>Best all-around offensive player should go to Nash. If it was scoring than Kobe. I don't get what you mean, because Nash can score and does so very efficiently and can pass much better than Kobe can.Edit: Not talking to you bigmo since you aren't a Lakers fan, but it's not a surprise a Laker fan comes in and thinks that offense is just scoring, because that's only half of it, or less if you want to go with offensive rebounding, but that really isn't a big deal in this debate. The other players get credit for finishing, that's why there's both the points AND assist stats, but Nash makes such amazing passes, it is incredible to watch. He always can find the open man no matter how much he's covered and the player that gets it usually gets and open shot which gets them going and helps them to perform better throughout the game. Assists are much more productive for your team than making them watch you score 50 a night.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Mar 25 2007, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If we're talking about the best all-around offensive player in the league, then I would have to say no, because that title belongs to Kobe. However, if we're talking about the player who is responsible for the most scoring output of his team, then Nash has to be up there, and I'd put him at the top. He scores, he sets people up, he controls the tempo... how can he not be the best in that aspect?</div>that's a kind of stupid comment, seeing as how "best all-around offensive player" and "player who is responsible for the most scoring output of his team" should be more or less the same thing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 25 2007, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Best all-around offensive player should go to Nash. If it was scoring than Kobe. I don't get what you mean, because Nash can score and does so very efficiently and can pass much better than Kobe can.</div>Yeah, I meant scoring... not offense... my bad.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 25 2007, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Best scoring player in the league is Kobe. period.</div>But the question is whether Nash is the best offensive player in the game, not the best scorer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 25 2007, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Best scoring player in the league is Kobe. period.</div>Duh. No one is arguing just scoring here. If we were it would be with Wade or Melo...not Nash. This is overall offense.
This is all dumb to me. These things shouldn't be meshed together. Scoring is scoring and assists are assists. Nash is the best player in the league at distributing the ball and getting assists. Kobe is the the best scorer in the league and getting the ball in the hoop. It should be seperate, not all-together offensively. It's kind of unfair...Nash has alot better teammates as well and feeds off passing the ball. Nash is the best passing player in the game and Kobe is the best scorer.
Oh and Nash's scoring + assist numbers are a little better than Kobe and while you may argue about the team tempo and supporting casts, Kobe also gets 5 more min a game which is about 3 points and an assist.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 25 2007, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is all dumb to me. These things shouldn't be meshed together. Scoring is scoring and assists are assists. Nash is the best player in the league at distributing the ball and getting assists. Kobe is the the best scorer in the league and getting the ball in the hoop. It should be seperate, not all-together offensively. It's kind of unfair...Nash has alot better teammates as well and feeds off passing the ball. Nash is the best passing player in the game and Kobe is the best scorer.</div>Offense has different parts to it. Just like on defense you have to put together rebounding, taking charges(just smart plays), blocks, steals and just how you do man-to-man and whoever does most of those the best would be the best defensive player. It all goes together on one side of the ball.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 25 2007, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is all dumb to me. These things shouldn't be meshed together. Scoring is scoring and assists are assists. Nash is the best player in the league at distributing the ball and getting assists. Kobe is the the best scorer in the league and getting the ball in the hoop. It should be seperate, not all-together offensively. It's kind of unfair...Nash has alot better teammates as well and feeds off passing the ball. Nash is the best passing player in the game and Kobe is the best scorer.</div>yes, but we're talking about best overall offensive player. haven't you ever heard of the game being divided into "offense" and "defense"?
PPG + 2 x APG leader = Steve Nash. If you factor in FGM, Team FGM when on court, and Assists then Steve Nash is still the most active player on offense.
The leadr in PPG + APG does not equal the best offensive player in basketball. Nash is a PG, and he has the ball in his hands more than Kobe does, along with other PGs too. Of course they will get alot of assists, which will bloat this. Deron Williams gets more APG + PPG than Kobe. Is he a better offensive player? No.Kobe is the best pure scorer in the League. Nash gets assists, but he is the PG. Kobe is the best offensive player in the league. Nash is probably top 3 though. I'd put him behind D-Wade.
If I had to pick one player to have the ball in their hands with the last shot it would be Steve Nash. He is just more dangerous on offense than anyone else. BTW Nash does not have the luxury of jacking up as many shots as Kobe. But there are more important factors used by 82games.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LBJ @ Mar 25 2007, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If I had to pick one player to have the ball in their hands with the last shot it would be Steve Nash. He is just more dangerous on offense than anyone else.</div>So if it is the end of the game with say 5 seconds left, you would rather give the ball to Nash than Kobe? lol
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Mar 25 2007, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The leadr in PPG + APG does not equal the best offensive player in basketball. Nash is a PG, and he has the ball in his hands more than Kobe does, along with other PGs too. Of course they will get alot of assists, which will bloat this. Deron Williams gets more APG + PPG than Kobe. Is he a better offensive player? No.Kobe is the best pure scorer in the League. Nash gets assists, but he is the PG. Kobe is the best offensive player in the league. Nash is probably top 3 though. I'd put him behind D-Wade.</div>Deron Williams points + assists is about 37 points...Kobe is a good ways ahead of him...Kobe gets the ball in his hands almost as much as Nash and him taking 8-9 more shots and playing 5 more minutes is a big reason why he's so far ahead in points too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Mar 25 2007, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So if it is the end of the game with say 5 seconds left, you would rather give the ball to Nash than Kobe? lol</div>Like I said, Nash has been just as clutch this season as Kobe whether you'd like to admit it or not. Kobe has been better all time, but Nash has been amazing is clutch situations this year and if he's not open he won't force up a shot like Kobe.
