OT If you won't kiss a trans woman, does that make you transphobic?

And my point is that I have never met anyone who is straight that suddenly decided they were gay because they saw someone walking down the street, and I have had a lot of gay friends over the years. They knew much earlier on than that. They didn't think to themselves, "That Brad Pitt is fucking hot...... I think I'm gay." People who come out of the closet later in life have typically repressed a lot of emotion and they have a lot of issues. Just look at a lot of the anti-gay Republicans who push the most strict anti-gay political agendas.... and then are caught with a man.

Human gender IS binary. That's why it takes a penis and a vagina to procreate. We cannot take a man and turn him into a woman. We can alter him to appear to be a woman, but he will not have reproductive organs. He cannot make babies. Just because we can surgically MAKE it a spectrum doesn't mean that it is. It's simple science. These types of stories arise when we try to combine social issues with scientific ones. Science doesn't care about society. It's either true or it isn't. It's very simple.

With that said, there's no reason why people can't be surgically altered if they so choose, and if they want to identify as a man or a woman, that's up to them, but just because we have arrived at a point medically where we can alter people doesn't mean that our biology is different. Humans evolved over a very long time. We have developed ways to combat male pattern baldness..... but people are still born with a gene that will eventually make them bald. If you go through a procedure that puts hair on your head, does it change the fact that you have that gene and your children have a high chance of being bald? We can correct vision with lasik, but will that change the fact that your children could be born with poor eyesight and need glasses? We haven't cured baldness. We haven't cured poor vision. You can still pass it down to your children. Similarly, we have not found a way to completely change a man into a woman or vice versa.

Maybe one day we will completely eradicate baldness. Maybe one day we will eliminate poor vision to the gene level. Maybe one day we will be able to completely alter your biology down to the smallest detail, but we aren't there yet. So currently, at best, we can make people feel better. We can make them more whole than they were.

 

First one isn't fair because I love her. She's hilarious.

Second one is beautiful but I don't like her nose.

Third one is pretty damn cute.

Fourth one I've seen women with that skin tone I find gorgeous. She isn't it.

More importantly all of them are better looking than me except Leslie.

 

Oh and the third one her eyebrows annoy the hell out of me.

 

Literally

 

Tolerance and acceptance is a two way street though. My father is a retired science/math teacher and has been a devout Christian all his life. He has 2 bachelor's degrees, a master's degree, and a PhD. He has been the most loving, wonderful husband to my mom and father to me but now, at 83, he has frontal lobe dementia. It is devastating to see my loving brilliant father's brain turn to mush. All he wants to do now is tell people how much he loves them and how much Jesus loves them but this disease affects his inhibitions and makes him obsessive and, frankly, weird. We've had to move them into a retirement home but he's not in memory care yet because he's still pretty functional. Anyway, Dad is constantly saying and doing the wrong thing and earlier in the day yesterday - before I posted about tolerance - my mom got yet another call from someone in management about my Dad's behavior. This time his offense was looking at one of the waitresses and saying, "You be a good little girl and clear my dishes" and later he looked at a waiter and told him, "You're a good little boy". Because I know his heart, I KNOW he thinks he's being funny and friendly. He calls me "Baby doll" all the time now and never called me that for the first 50 years of my life (I hate it) - it's just the disease progressing! So now my mom has to talk to him about this latest incident and she's able to help him understand he needs to just wait until the employees come over and clear the dishes but he doesn't really comprehend that he also said something wrong. But because these young politically correct people can't tolerate him calling them little girl or little boy my mom has to tell him he can't go into the dining room without her or speak to the employees.

 

Um.. those people work in a facility where they know these things. They signed up for it so they have to accept the fact that these things are going to happen and they can't change it. Tolerating it means you haven't fully accepted it.

To me tolerate is a negative word.

 

It’s sad to me that you actually believe the paternalistic, archaic bullshit in this post. I can see why BC is staying the hell away from here.

I’ll just leave this here and call it a day. http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

 

i don't like short hair or overly shit eyebrows so 1, 3 and 4 are out. however, number 2 may warrant a second glance if i weren't a married man

 

to me liberal is a negative word, but i still tolerate. aaahhh this relativism is fun!

 

Well Dad is not in memory care yet so he's still going to the dining room and looks normal. So the wait staff may not be used to dealing with someone with this condition... at least that's what I've been telling myself. Even the two young people's manager admitted to Mom it was being nit picky but I do believe these two people have the right to their feelings. The thing is, Dad is going to continue to deteriorate and say the wrong things and, while they don't have to accept or like him saying these things he cannot change what is happening (and neither can Mom or I) and I'm asking them to give him some slack... that's what I mean by tolerance here. I was just particularly sensitive about it yesterday but I totally get what you mean!

 

kids need to grow a pair. i've dealt with some dementia patients as a security guard that made me lmfao with the shit they say and the temper they get. it's all perspective though. one old guy got super human strength when he told us to go fuck ourselves, he scared me a little because i didnt want to hurt him if i had to defend myself, but it all worked out. helps if nursing staff actually knows wtf they are doing, which ours did not of course.

 

This is acceptance. Accept the fact that he can't change what's happening to him. Accept the fact that you work in the type of facility that serves people of his age and condition. Their job is to cut him slack. It's what they're paid to do.

People just need to accept people for who they are and also accept the fact that they can't change them.

My mentor has a great quote:

"Every coach, male or female, is a FUCKING PRICK. But you have to know how to handle your prick."

 

Haha, love it! Coming back to physical preferences... I've always been attracted to tall, dark, and handsome and, just like @rasheedfan2005, I ended up with someone who is not that. Mr. Spud is shorter than me, light hair, and weighs about a buck fifty soaking wet but he's funny as hell and always has my back. One of the smartest things he ever said to me was, "We all have a big bowl of shit. You just have to find the person with a bowl of shit you can deal with and go from there."

 

I was gonna say that but it was like an HCP joke. Too easy

 

Oh god... fuck off with this kind of dismissive attitude. If you disagree with me, feel free to debate it and present other evidence, but you just went ahead and played the usual SJW card.

WE MUST BE ALL INCLUSIVE.......... UNLESS YOU DISAGREE WITH ME AND THEN FUCK YOU! YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT'S WRONGGGGGGGGG!

I'm not taking anyone's rights away. I'm not saying that trans people should be treated differently in the eyes of society. But my opinion is that scientifically, biologically, humans are born as male or as female. Obviously there are some situations where people are born with both parts, and we're still trying to understand why some people feel that they should be the opposite sex..... but I don't see how believing that biologically we're born with certain parts is some kind of archaic outlook on human anatomy.

It still takes semen and an egg to create human life. That hasn't changed.

 

Oh I get where we're having friction. I was talking about gender and you're talking about gonads.

http://nautil.us/issue/43/heroes/why-sex-is-binary-but-gender-is-a-spectrum

Long article, but here's the part that ties to our discussion:

In other words: gender is a spectrum even though our bodies only produce one or the other set of gonads using a couple of genetic combinations in the sex chromosomes. Genetic expression of hormones can and does cause a spectrum of genders that are by necessity not tied to whether you have a penis or a vagina (or, more genetically important, testes or ovaries).

Where your beliefs and science diverge is that you think sex and gender are the same when they are not.

This brings up the follow-up question: when someone says "I won't date a trans woman", what about that woman are they rejecting? What, when it comes down to it, is essential to womanhood for this someone?

Is it a vagina? Is it breasts? Is it ovaries? Because outside of those three things (and maybe only one of those three... more on that in a minute), trans women can be indistinguishable from normal women.

Of course, hormones can grow breasts and surgery can give trans women working vaginas. Uteran transplants exist now, and can give them a working uterus. If hormones are started in time, trans women can look exactly like normal women.

So what is it that would make someone say "no trans women"?

There's one piece of the puzzle left: ovaries. Maybe that someone is super attracted to ovaries and the notion of getting naturally pregnant. Is that maybe what Ginuwine is trying to say? Because if it is, he might have a point. But the reason I am saying he's transphoic is that I'm pretty sure it isn't.

What he's really saying is, "I won't date a tranny". He's saying "no drag queens, no chicks with dicks, no traps, no shemales"... because that's what he thinks trans women are. And people agreeing with him are echoing those same feelings. Yeah, who would want to date a giant hairy dude in a dress amirite?

dviss made a point about "sure you won't date her, but what about them"... Sure you won't date Laverne Cox, but what about her?



My point is that conversation making a point one way for race but a different point for gender is a case where one kind of prejudice is okay and another is not. And that is transphobic.

 

Honestly, I'm fucking tired of everyone thinking that we must all agree on every social issue.

We don't need to agree on the issue. We only need to agree that it's none of our business. If someone is gay, cool, doesn't affect me. If someone is trans, cool, doesn't affect me. If someone believes in God or Alah or whatever.... cool.... doesn't fucking affect me.

People have a right to their own personal beliefs. And as long as those beliefs aren't hoisted onto others, then you do not have a right to force them to change their beliefs or opinions. You can share evidence, you can debate the issue, but you can't force them to change. And lately I have been seeing people who think that publicly shaming or belittling another person's opinion or belief is completely okay as long as you think popular opinion is on your side. It's bullying. It's abuse.

I'm willing to debate any topic, and I'm willing to change my opinion, but when someone throws some shit like "mansplaining" or "paternalistic" at me, instead of debating the topic, I immediately think that this person can't explain their argument and needs to resort to name calling to try to get their point across. Shouting down or shaming is not an okay method for discussion. Period.

 

You started this thread! You literally foisted your beliefs on the forum. You tried to bring the one trans person on this forum out in the open to argue with her and then you cry when someone disagrees with you and presents scientific evidence. You cant handle that I called out your opinions as uninformed and your tone of making the transes feel comfortable in their dresses as paternalistic "but we all know better don't we lads" bullshit. This whole thread is a fucking sham, and you are the one who started it. Don't try to act superior. You are not.

 

Is this the girl from Transgender? Looks kinda....nope.. googled the image. Some model I'd never heard of.

She's hot as hell. I'd date her before I dated Chrissy Metz.