<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Legacy @ Apr 8 2007, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know why you guys act like Jefferson is a better scorer because he has more post moves.</div> :HAHAHA: That is EXACTLY why he's a better scorer. That's like saying "Just because Ray Allen has a better shot than Delonte West, doesn't mean Allen is the better shooter." You proved my point with that quote above.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Legacy @ Apr 8 2007, 10:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know why you guys act like Jefferson is a better scorer because he has more post moves. To me it's pretty obvious Howard is the better scorer. I don't care how they put the ball in the basket - it's all about the effectiveness. And Howard is effective with his own style and Jefferson is effective with his own style. But Howard scores more points than Jefferson so he's the better scorer regardless of how he puts the ball in the basket.</div>Actually Jefferson is a better scorer than Howard is. Jefferson has a much wider variety of moves and abilities on the offensive side compared to Howard. Howard does not have as many different offensive weapons on his team, as Jefferson does, so Howard is going to average more points. Also Howard is very limited offensively, he only has like one or two moves he can do offensively, and is very predictable on the offensive end. That is why he averages so many turnovers per game, lots of his opponents know his game, because of how predictable it is. Meanwhile Jefferson is not this same way, he can pull off a variety of moves, to where if one thing isn't working he can change and do other things. Offensively he is a better low post scorer than Howard is by a ways. Overall though, I still like Howard because you can anchor a defense around him better, he controls the paint better, he is stronger, more athletic, and I believe a better rebounder than Jefferson, even though Jefferson is a good rebounder.
I would say they are pretty much evenly matched. They had a great matchup against each other the last time Orland played Boston. It's pretty much a wash.
You guys are getting blown out of proportion here. Take a step back at it and look at it simplly. Dwight Howard averages more ppg than Jefferson. Dwight Howard has more total ppg than Al Jefferson. Why is that so hard to see? Who the heck cares who has the better moves? Dwight Howard scores more. I don't care how he puts it in the basket - and neither should you. He puts it in the basket more times than Jefferson and that's all that matters.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Legacy @ Apr 8 2007, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dwight is better than Jefferson in the post. I said that. And don't start calling me an idiot because I know it.</div>You know that you're already an idiot?
Legacy, stats aren't everything, the only reason why Howard is "putting the ball in the basket" more than Jefferson when you look at averages is because Jefferson wasn't playing the minutes he is now at the beginning of the year. You're also totally disreguarding what CB32 said when he posted Jefferson's stats as a starter. They are exactly the same as Howard. And also low post moves are definately important in the long run. That is what will make these guys' careers last. Athleticism will only decrease over the years but if you have the low post moves and different varities in your game than you can have a long lasting career and still being effective. Also AL J has developed a 12-15 foot jump shot that Howard doesn't have.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Legacy @ Apr 8 2007, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys are getting blown out of proportion here. Take a step back at it and look at it simplly. Dwight Howard averages more ppg than Jefferson. Dwight Howard has more total ppg than Al Jefferson. Why is that so hard to see? Who the heck cares who has the better moves? Dwight Howard scores more. I don't care how he puts it in the basket - and neither should you. He puts it in the basket more times than Jefferson and that's all that matters.</div>Seriously..as a starter he averages less than 1 PPG over Al Jefferson and he plays about 5 more minutes per game..Numbers are skewed...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Legacy @ Apr 8 2007, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys are getting blown out of proportion here. Take a step back at it and look at it simplly. Dwight Howard averages more ppg than Jefferson. Dwight Howard has more total ppg than Al Jefferson. Why is that so hard to see? Who the heck cares who has the better moves? Dwight Howard scores more. I don't care how he puts it in the basket - and neither should you. He puts it in the basket more times than Jefferson and that's all that matters.</div>As someone that has seen Dwight Howard play a good 50 times more than anyone else on this board, believe me, Dwight Howard is not on the same level as Jefferson when it comes to low post scoring. Just because Dwight Howard averages more points doesn't mean much of anything, it just means he gets more chances to score. Often times the leading scorer stats does not tell the whole story. Look at Tracy Mcgrady who is one of the top two or three scorers in the league, but doesn't average as much as other guys because he passes the ball more and plays in a different kind of offense. Dwight Howard averages the most turnovers per game in the NBA to, because of how limited his offensive game is. People like Jermaine O'neal have an easy time guarding Dwight Howard, because they know what he is already going to do when he gets the ball. His favorite move is to get the ball with the guy on his back, fake left then spin to his right hand for a layup or dunk. This works on teams that have worse off low post defenses like the Warriors, Timberwolves and teams like that. But against the good defensive teams it causes alot of turnovers because they just make him have to spin left, and he looses the ball alot going that away. Basic moves like this are all he has, and once they are taken away he has a hard time doing anything else to score. That is why you will see him put up games where he only scores 6 points, and have as many turnovers.Meanwhile Jefferson is not like this, he is not predictable and doesn't turn the ball over alot when forced to go away from what he likes to do. Just look at how he averages only 1.5 turnovers per game, compared to Dwight Howards 4 turnovers per game. That is because he is less predictable, and can pull off alot of moves in the post. He is also alot more consistent scoring wise than Howard is because of him being able to rely on several different moves compared to Howards relying on just one move, power, and athletic ability.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Apr 8 2007, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As someone that has seen Dwight Howard play a good 50 times more than anyone else on this board, believe me, Dwight Howard is not on the same level as Jefferson when it comes to low post scoring. Just because Dwight Howard averages more points doesn't mean much of anything, it just means he gets more chances to score. Often times the leading scorer stats does not tell the whole story. Look at Tracy Mcgrady who is one of the top two or three scorers in the league, but doesn't average as much as other guys because he passes the ball more and plays in a different kind of offense. Dwight Howard averages the most turnovers per game in the NBA to, because of how limited his offensive game is. People like Jermaine O'neal have an easy time guarding Dwight Howard, because they know what he is already going to do when he gets the ball. His favorite move is to get the ball with the guy on his back, fake left then spin to his right hand for a layup or dunk. This works on teams that have worse off low post defenses like the Warriors, Timberwolves and teams like that. But against the good defensive teams it causes alot of turnovers because they just make him have to spin left, and he looses the ball alot going that away. Basic moves like this are all he has, and once they are taken away he has a hard time doing anything else to score. That is why you will see him put up games where he only scores 6 points, and have as many turnovers.Meanwhile Jefferson is not like this, he is not predictable and doesn't turn the ball over alot when forced to go away from what he likes to do. Just look at how he averages only 1.5 turnovers per game, compared to Dwight Howards 4 turnovers per game. That is because he is less predictable, and can pull off alot of moves in the post. He is also alot more consistent scoring wise than Howard is because of him being able to rely on several different moves compared to Howards relying on just one move, power, and athletic ability.</div>Oh? Dwight gets more oppurtunities? Dwight gets fed the ball a lot less than he should be. You're making excuses for Al when you could be making them for Dwight. Jameer Nelson is not always pass first, Hedro (Sp) is a shooter, Ariza is a shooter, Dooling likes to shoot....The only real players who are gonna give the ball willingly to Dwight is Grant Hill and Jameer Nelson and they both like to score and are playing for contracts soon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Legacy @ Apr 8 2007, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh? Dwight gets more oppurtunities? Dwight gets fed the ball a lot less than he should be. You're making excuses for Al when you could be making them for Dwight. Jameer Nelson is not always pass first, Hedro (Sp) is a shooter, Ariza is a shooter, Dooling likes to shoot....The only real players who are gonna give the ball willingly to Dwight is Grant Hill and Jameer Nelson and they both like to score and are playing for contracts soon.</div> I think you are leaving out the fact that valo is a big time Magic fan, a big time Howard fan, yet he still knows the truth. Al Jefferson's post game is so much more advanced than Dwight's, it's not even close. You're the only one who disagrees with that. Dwight Howard would tell you Al is the better offensive player.
^Al is the better offensive player, but I feel Dwight will be right there with him in a couple years. Al's footwork and postmoves as of right now though are much more developed, and he has shown that he has better range as of late.Give me Dwight on everything else though....haha
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Apr 9 2007, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^Al is the better offensive player, but I feel Dwight will be right there with him in a couple years. Al's footwork and postmoves as of right now though are much more developed, and he has shown that he has better range as of late. Give me Dwight on everything else though....haha</div> I don't know if Dwight will ever have as advanced a post game as Al does, he is very gifted. It's natural ability. Sure, Dwight will improve and post moves can obviously be taught, but Al just has that natural feel. It's one thing to work on it for years, but it's another thing to naturally have "it" down there. I would say Dwight is better than Al at pretty much everything except low-post offense, shooting, and passing (especially out of double-teams). Al does basically everything better than Dwight on the offensive end (while Dwight does everything better than Al on the defensive end). Like valo has pointed out, Dwight is very predictable in the post and he gets caught, he turns the ball over. Big Al's passing and timing has improved immensely, and he has really done an excellent job passing out of the double-team and finding cutters. So really, these two DEFINITELY aren't too far off from each other. I'd give Dwight the edge due to his defense and the fact that he is much more physically imposing, but it's really not THAT much of an edge. Al is right there with him, man.
I dunno why we're even arguing who has the better offensive game. Obviously I think differentley, fine. But all I had said was Dwight was a better player than Al Jefferson and every single one of you has agreed so I don't know what the argument here is.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Legacy @ Apr 9 2007, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dunno why we're even arguing who has the better offensive game. Obviously I think differentley, fine. But all I had said was Dwight was a better player than Al Jefferson and every single one of you has agreed so I don't know what the argument here is.</div> Stop playing dumb, you said multiple times that Howard was the better offensive player... that is what we are all arguing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>But all I had said was Dwight was a better player than Al Jefferson and every single one of you has agreed</div>I'm pretty sure we all disagreed offensively and that's what you originally said.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WELCOMEtotheJUNGLE @ Apr 9 2007, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure we all disagreed offensively and that's what you originally said.</div> I think he knows that, but he's trying to play it off because he's been outnumbered and was also disagreed with by a big time Magic/Howard fan, who happens to be one of the most intelligent members at BBW.
you're disregarding intangibles too.tie game, on possession left.would you rather have Jefferson and his multiple scoring methods or Howard and his athleticism to get a bucket??99/100 will take the person who can get a good shot off knowing that the double team is coming.Howard get's doubled, he ain't dunking on jack or getting a put back.Howard is more effective on the defensive end as he is more active defensively and rebounds really really well.I'd say right now Howard is still the better player and he took less time to develop.Hence he's a top 2 pick in his draft.Jefferson has blown up this year and if he stay this consistent next year and has a healthy Paul to make things easier and have less double teams, he's gonna have a great year and have numbers similar to Howard or Amare IMO.yes it's speculation, but with 23 wins this year, I'm all about the speculation.
