Including Nards is perhaps the funniest thing you've ever said in your life. Then again I never watched a single episode of the show you were on, I think it was Grim? That was a comedy wasn't it, maybe the writers gave you something funny to say.
You have nothing to back up you're claim of Butler being a good defender other than a SB Nation article that the writer claimed that the undersized SF in Caron Butler was "supposed to be their defensive stopper". Not even a quote from Carlisle or anyone in the organization. You have no basis for your claim, and then when I back up my argument with some substance, you claim it's "misleading" and "defense can't be measure with stats". Well, it shouldn't have to be. For someone that claims to have watched that Dallas team as much as anyone, you should be able to realize that Marion, Kidd, and Chandler brought much more to the defensive end than Caron fucking Butler.
Dirk wasn't Top 5 in MVP voting that year. But dude, I think we agree on more than you think. I thought that Dallas team was awesome. And I loved all the players you mentioned. I think their sweep of the Lakers was my favorite playoff series of all time, including anything the Blazers have done.
Exactly. Our team was no longer a playoff contender once Wes went down. We essentially lost our 1st and 2nd string SGs to injury, and already didn't have a lot of depth (I know Afflalo played, but his shoulder was fucked and he wasn't the same). You're trying to argue our team was good enough to still win a series while claiming that Meyers was our 3rd best player at the time.
Yet, his Per 36 stats we're basically identical to the year he won MVP. We don't agree on anything regarding Caron Butler. You're extremely overrating him, and comparing losing him to us losing Wes is insulting the the basketball player Wesley Matthews was at the time.
This is the funniest quote from this argument. You, sir, should know better. If you'd like to come appear in a YouTube debate show, be my guest. However, if (when) I out-debated you, you wouldn't promote it on your Twitter page, so there's not much incentive for me.
Our third string SG, CJ McCollum was awesome. We should've been able to at least compete in the series but Aldridge and Batum were garbage and that had nothing to do with Wes being hurt.
Derrick Rose won MVP easily. And when Dirk DID win MVP, his team got bounced in the first round by an 8 seed in 6 games. Not very MVP like.
Even if Batum and Aldridge played well, do you really think we were gonna win that series? We let Beno Udrih demolish us. Hmm... Maybe not having our best perimeter defender was part of that problem?
Comeon man. Rose only won MVP because Miami and the media was tired of giving it to LBJ. You know this to be a fact.
So? You're the one using MVP voting to determine whether a player was playing at an MVP level or not.
Oh my gosh, Udrih TOTALLY dominated us. I was at that first game. It was ridiculous. But if Batum and Aldridge play well, of course we win especially when you see how well CJ and Meyers played. That series was why Meyers got his money. The following year, he was injured in the playoffs so that summer I think Neil was actually giving 2015 Meyers the money but he's never played like that since. Sucks.
Caron Butler was an 80 overall player in 2k for years and year and years, that has to count for something.
Absolutely. But doesn't change that Rose ran away with the award in the voting. It was basically best player on best team though. Chicago had a better record than Miami and LeBron had Wade. So it made sense.
New convo: Not comparing Caron to Wes, or to the triumvirate of defenders around him, but I think you're underrating him, especially on the defensive end. One of the reasons DAL went after him is because he could play D on an island on a wing (among the league leaders in steals every year and bodied up many good wings, including K*be), his DWS were consistently high (until that Achilles' injury turned him into a one-dimensional player) and his shooting was getting much better (leading the league from 3 when he got injured). If you wanted to say he was Captain Fragile, I'd agree. If you said that he only invented a long-range shooting game for himself after he'd been in the league awhile, I'd agree. And while not All-NBA D like Chandler was (and deserved to be), Flip Saunders thought he could be. He gambled a bunch, especially on bad WAS teams, but he wasn't some clown on D.
No, we don't win if they play well. We got blown out in Memphis both games. Yes the series probably goes 6, and maybe 7, but you're also ignoring the context of Memphis being a GREAT defensive team that regularly held stars in check and made players like Batum and Aldridge struggle. That's a credit to Memphis. We weren't as good as them, and we couldn't win the ugly, low-scoring games because we didn't have Wes, who is the type of player that excels in those type of games.
Ehh, his team defense wasn't great though, was it? And he regressed the year before he got hurt. I'm not even saying he was a bad defender, he just wasn't a great defender like Marion, Kidd, and Chandler, which is what makes them better players than Butler, why they were able to absorb his loss, and why we couldn't (we didn't have players like that).
Also doesn't mean Dirk, LBJ, or others weren't playing at an MVP level just because Rose won the voting.
