<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Devlin @ May 19 2007, 07:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys are soo stupid Kobe is tyhe greatest player ever...OK Im joking.All bias aside...Talent wise I would say both players are equal, and can basicly do anything they feel like with a basketball...But at this moment of time, the only thing that Jordan has over Kobe is the rings, and lets not forget, Jordan had pippen, the few years, Kobe's equivalent to Scottie Pippen is Smush Parker.Kobe also has a lot of years to get a couple of rings (Hopefully) escpecially if he gets the correct supporting cast.</div>He also was also unquestionably the best player on every championship team he was on, has 9 more scoring titles, 5 more regular season MVP awards, 6 more Finals MVP awards, one more defensive player of the year award. Kobe has a long way to go before he can be compared to Jordan. Right now he's more comparable to Julius Erving; a great scorer who never made it to the top until he got a great center.Smush Parker? Lamar Odom is not a bad player at all. Jordan was able to make everyone around him better. Kobe doesn't do that nearly as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>But at this moment of time, the only thing that Jordan has over Kobe is the rings, and lets not forget, Jordan had pippen, the few years, Kobe's equivalent to Scottie Pippen is Smush Parker.Kobe also has a lot of years to get a couple of rings (Hopefully) escpecially if he gets the correct supporting cast.</div>MJ was both the better scorer, defender and rebounder than Kobe.Kobe had arguably the MDE for 8 years of his career....I don't want to hear anything about Pippen.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ May 19 2007, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jordan was able to make everyone around him better. Kobe doesn't do that nearly as well.</div>This is not true. Early in his career Jordan was doing just about what Kobe is doing now. Jordan made players better only because he attracted so much attention. Pippen was the playmaker of the 6 ring Bulls, and Kobe was playmaker of 3 peat Lakers.
Many people are never going to put people near Jordan's level not only because of his play, but because of everything else Jordan was, he was the NBA, he was marketing, he was every basketball players idol growing up, he has his footprints on everything....and Kobe's never going to reach that...because he came first and set the bar so high. Michael Jordan might have been just a basketball player, but he was basketball, he was the NBA on top of everything. There will never be another Jordan, there will never be anyone like Jordan, because it's impossible.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ May 19 2007, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is not true. Early in his career Jordan was doing just about what Kobe is doing now. Jordan made players better only because he attracted so much attention. Pippen was the playmaker of the 6 ring Bulls, and Kobe was playmaker of 3 peat Lakers.</div>Kobe was Shaq's sidekick, like Pippen was Jordan's. Until he's the best player on a championship team it's premature to compare him to the greatest player ever. Jordan averaged 8 APG in 88-89 on a team that went to the Eastern Conference Finals. That was his 5th year in the league. Kobe's best year assist wise was 00-01 when he had 6.1. Obviously Jordan got his teammates involved a litter more than Kobe did much earlier in his career. Remember when Jordan gave Steve Kerr the championship winning shot in the 97 Finals? Can you really see Kobe doing that? Maybe Kobe will defer when he's on a more talented team, but I'll believe it when I see it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ May 20 2007, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe was Shaq's sidekick, like Pippen was Jordan's. Until he's the best player on a championship team it's premature to compare him to the greatest player ever. Jordan averaged 8 APG in 88-89 on a team that went to the Eastern Conference Finals. That was his 5th year in the league. Kobe's best year assist wise was 00-01 when he had 6.1. Obviously Jordan got his teammates involved a litter more than Kobe did much earlier in his career. Remember when Jordan gave Steve Kerr the championship winning shot in the 97 Finals? Can you really see Kobe doing that? Maybe Kobe will defer when he's on a more talented team, but I'll believe it when I see it.</div>Well in the nba finals it was kobe making the big shots. But during the 2002 playoffs against the blazers, kobe bryant drove by pippen drew another defender then kicked out to horry for a 3. That finished the series off.There are also other plays where kobe has assisted players for big shots. I'll have to find them for you.Kobe deferred more during the 3 peat more than mj ever did. Go figure.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brando @ May 20 2007, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dont forget the one against Portland in 2000 WCF he gave it to Ron Harper for the win....</div>That was on the lakers dynasty vid. I don't even recall it, it was on tv down here but I was like 9.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ May 19 2007, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe was Shaq's sidekick, like Pippen was Jordan's. Until he's the best player on a championship team it's premature to compare him to the greatest player ever. Jordan averaged 8 APG in 88-89 on a team that went to the Eastern Conference Finals. That was his 5th year in the league. Kobe's best year assist wise was 00-01 when he had 6.1. Obviously Jordan got his teammates involved a litter more than Kobe did much earlier in his career. Remember when Jordan gave Steve Kerr the championship winning shot in the 97 Finals? Can you really see Kobe doing that? Maybe Kobe will defer when he's on a more talented team, but I'll believe it when I see it.</div>He wasn't the best player on those teams, correct- but he did have as big of a role in the championships. He was depended on for 20-30PPG, 5-6APG, 5-6RPG, hit the clutch shots as Shaq can be a liability in final minutes, and defend the other team's best perimeter player. Kobe would have had more assists on the Lakers from 00-04 without Shaq. Shaq demanded the ball so much that Kobe rarely got an oppertunity to have 8APG like MJ did, despite being the playmaker. You can see with Wade this year, ahving 8APG pre-injury with Shaq out most of the year. Yes, Kobe has given up the ball in the clutch before, even with this current Lakers team. For instance when Lamar Odom was allowed to take the last shot vs the Knicks. Kobe deferred a crapload earlier this season. Only when everyone got injured and they started losing, he went on his scoring spree. He was the playmaker son the 3 peat Lakers. The guy does what it takes to win.
Of course he deferred more than MJ during those title runs; he wasn't the best player on his own team! Jordan was, and it's not like the Bulls ever suffered from him taking most of the shots. I'm not saying Kobe isn't a great player, just that he's FAR from being the greatest. IMHO he's the best player in the league right now, but wait until the guy is the best player on a championship team before saying he's better than MJ. Even then it'd be difficult to argue because of all MJ's scoring titles and MVP awards. Right now you could easily argue that Tim Duncan is greater than Kobe. 2 more MVP's, just as many titles, Finals MVP 3 times, the Spurs have been more consistent, and he's unquestionably the best player on his team ever year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ May 20 2007, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Of course he deferred more than MJ during those title runs; he wasn't the best player on his own team! Jordan was, and it's not like the Bulls ever suffered from him taking most of the shots. I'm not saying Kobe isn't a great player, just that he's FAR from being the greatest. IMHO he's the best player in the league right now, but wait until the guy is the best player on a championship team before saying he's better than MJ. Even then it'd be difficult to argue because of all MJ's scoring titles and MVP awards. Right now you could easily argue that Tim Duncan is greater than Kobe. 2 more MVP's, just as many titles, Finals MVP 3 times, the Spurs have been more consistent, and he's unquestionably the best player on his team ever year.</div>MJ never had more than 5.5APG when the Bulls were winning rings. In the early years MJ's teams weren't even over .500. Bottom line is it is hard to average 8APG in the triangle, especially when you have another great scorer with you (Pippen with MJ, Shaq with Kobe). MJ would have also had to have deferred to Shaq, who was playing the center position with a level of dominance rarely before seen. Lasty year, Kobe carried an NBDL level team, minus Odom, to 45 wins and a near upset of the #2 seed (with 35PPG), and then this year had a 40PPG month to get team into playoffs. Kobe's team benefits from his scoring.I don't understand how he is far from the best ever. First of all he was just as big of a part of the 3 peat as Shaq was despite not being the best player. Secondly, he has a HUGE list of individual accomplishments. Lastly, right now, he is clearly the best player in the league, one of the 3 greatest scorers the league has ever seen, as talented as the league has ever seen, and has all the intangibles to go with it (defense, clutch shots, pure desire to win, etc...). No one is saying that he should be put above Jordan, but right now he is playing the game almost as well as Jordan ever did.Considering Kobe's LONG list of accomplishments is somewhat comparable to TD's and the fact that he is simply the better player, he is right about where Duncan is if I made up a top 50 all time. He is also a few years younger than Duncan, so he has quite a bit left in the tank.
How is he one of the 3 greatest scorers ever seen when he only has one scoring title? Kobe may have a lot of accomplishments, but that list pales in comparison to Jordan's.Actually people are saying he's better than Jordan, and I find it very annoying. He needs to win at least one MVP, a few more scoring titles, a Finals MVP, and lead a team to a championship before he's comparable to Jordan. He's not nearly as dominant.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ May 21 2007, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How is he one of the 3 greatest scorers ever seen when he only has one scoring title? Kobe may have a lot of accomplishments, but that list pales in comparison to Jordan's.Actually people are saying he's better than Jordan, and I find it very annoying. He needs to win at least one MVP, a few more scoring titles, a Finals MVP, and lead a team to a championship before he's comparable to Jordan. He's not nearly as dominant.</div>81pt game. 9 straight 40pt games. 4 straight 50pt games. 4 career 60pt+ games (all 4 in past 2 years). 2nd most 50pt+ games in a season (Wilt). 35PPG. 2 straight scoring titles. Around 30th on all time scoring list at only 28 years old (most people predict him to take Kareem's record by the end of his career). Talent wise, possibly the greatest all around scorer of all time. Forget all the accomplishments....in the past 2 years Kobe has scored the ball better than any other player not named Wilt or MJ.No one is saying he is better than Jordan. Talent wise maybe, and maybe in the future he could be considered the greatest of all time...but not now.MJ wasn't dominant in team oriented accomplishments (rings, winning allows oppertunity for Finals MVP, etc..) until he had the role players around him. Right now Kobe is dominating the league just like Jordan did when he had no help. Ultimately if he is to be considered as the greatest of all time he will need more accomplishments (at 28, which Kobe is now, MJ was just winning his 2nd ring, so there is still lots of time), but as an individual talent, you can argue Kobe to be better right now. He has just reached his prime, so I expect many more scoring titles, first team NBA, all defensive team, all star MVP, and other accomplishments to come his way.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ May 24 2007, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's Jordans hype. He's like the f*cking Beatles for some reason.</div>Call it hype. But Kobe isn't better than MJ. I think he is a better talent but he still isn't mentally there. Part of it because he doesn't trust his teamates but part of it is because he thinks his hot even when he isn't. He needs to grow up. And when he does that and gets real players on his team and wins then he'll be better than MJ.But for now, it's not even arguable.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ May 23 2007, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's Jordans hype. He's like the f*cking Beatles for some reason.</div> I can't understand of Jordan got so much hype...winning 6 titles, revolutionizing the game, how the game is maketed....I could go on forever...etc...etc...etc...etc...etc...
Sports progress as society progresses. The talent level of our professional sports leagues is always becoming better. The players playing this day are much better than the players who played in the 60s, 70, or 80s. While there were superstars in the 90s who definately could be superstars today, like Jordan, the defenders Jordan faced and the difficulty of his opponents was not what Kobe faces today. Kobe's raw basketball skills are as good as anything we've ever seen and his game is pretty much flawless. Saying he is selfish is innacurate too. So many players on the Lakers last season had the best seasons they've had in their careers. He's one of the top shooting guards in assists and he makes his teammates better.I think Kobe is as good of a player as Jordan was, and in a game of 1 on 1, he could hang. Jordan's trophy case though, is why we have this argument. While Kobe is as good of a player as Jordan was, Jordan is thought of as the best ever because of his accomplishments, and rightfully so.
I haven't read through this thread, so I don't know what was said and what wasn't, but after I post this, I will look through some stuff. Consider this my intro to the thread.Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are some of the only players that seem to get in this "zone" defensively and offensively. Where, what ever they want to accomplish, they do. Whatever they throw up at the basket- goes in. Whenever they reach- they get a steal. Their passes are on target, their cross-overs are effective, and their leadership brings their teammates up a notch. There aren't a lot of players that have ever reached this level, and I really only see Kobe that can- that is active in the league right now.One big difference that I have noticed between these two is this, after a player stops Kobe on offense (blocks his shot, steals the ball, whatever) Kobe looks right to the ref and complains (a good amount of times) while the rest of the Lakers hurry back on defense (for the most part). When this happend to Michael Jordan, he got back on defense and fixed his mistake. He stole the ball, blocked a break-away layup, slapped the ball out of bounds, he did whatever he could. You made him look bad- and you paid. That was one thing I loved about Michael Jordan, but I don't see in Kobe. Although Kobe is the only player in the NBA right now that you can try to compare with Michael Jordan, I still would take Jordan over Kobe Bryant. It is always hard trying to compare players from different eras (they were different enough).Regardless of how this goes, there will never be another Michael Jordan. There will be people that play better than him, but their will never be a player that effected the NBA as he did.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sportswhiz @ May 7 2007, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Love this post. I was gonna say something along these lines, but I didn't wanna copy you. Anyway I pick Kobe, why? well because he's one of the most hated players, and yet he doesn't baby about it, and stop playing his best. He goes out there, and makes the other team pay.</div>Am I the only one that noticed this post?
The only way this is debatable is if we're talking literally. Take away all the championships, accolades, commercials, just leave the players. It's Jordan, but it's close. This is also hard to do because we're comparing a retired player and someone who's still playing. When we talk about Kobe, we're talking about him right now. When we're talking about Jordan, it could be the 80's Jordan, it could be the 90's Jordan, hell, it could be the Wizards Jordan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>This is not true. Early in his career Jordan was doing just about what Kobe is doing now. Jordan made players better only because he attracted so much attention. Pippen was the playmaker of the 6 ring Bulls, and Kobe was playmaker of 3 peat Lakers.</div>When are people going to cut the "early in his career" crap? Kobe's been in the league eleven seasons.
