<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kobebryant_24OWNEDME @ May 30 2007, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When are people going to cut the "early in his career" crap? Kobe's been in the league eleven seasons.</div>What? I never said anything about Kobe early in his career, I was referring to Jordan when he first came in the league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ May 30 2007, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What? I never said anything about Kobe early in his career, I was referring to Jordan when he first came in the league.</div>yes, but livinglegend said that jordan made his teammates better, you said that jordan early in his career didn't. That would imply that you were only comparing him to early on jordan.And that wasn't just directed at you, it was directed at a lot of people who think it's too early to make a judgement (it is, but it's not too early for it to be a discussion.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kobebryant_24OWNEDME @ May 30 2007, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>yes, but livinglegend said that jordan made his teammates better, you said that jordan early in his career didn't. That would imply that you were only comparing him to early on jordan.And that wasn't just directed at you, it was directed at a lot of people who think it's too early to make a judgement (it is, but it's not too early for it to be a discussion.)</div>You can't compare him to Jordan later on because Jordan was basically only in the scorer role during the 6 rings. Right now Kobe is playing the role Jordan did early in his career when he didn't have Pippen taking the reigns of playmaker.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drake24 @ May 26 2007, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I haven't read through this thread, so I don't know what was said and what wasn't, but after I post this, I will look through some stuff. Consider this my intro to the thread.Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are some of the only players that seem to get in this "zone" defensively and offensively. Where, what ever they want to accomplish, they do. Whatever they throw up at the basket- goes in. Whenever they reach- they get a steal. Their passes are on target, their cross-overs are effective, and their leadership brings their teammates up a notch. There aren't a lot of players that have ever reached this level, and I really only see Kobe that can- that is active in the league right now.One big difference that I have noticed between these two is this, after a player stops Kobe on offense (blocks his shot, steals the ball, whatever) Kobe looks right to the ref and complains (a good amount of times) while the rest of the Lakers hurry back on defense (for the most part). When this happend to Michael Jordan, he got back on defense and fixed his mistake. He stole the ball, blocked a break-away layup, slapped the ball out of bounds, he did whatever he could. You made him look bad- and you paid. That was one thing I loved about Michael Jordan, but I don't see in Kobe. Although Kobe is the only player in the NBA right now that you can try to compare with Michael Jordan, I still would take Jordan over Kobe Bryant. It is always hard trying to compare players from different eras (they were different enough).Regardless of how this goes, there will never be another Michael Jordan. There will be people that play better than him, but their will never be a player that effected the NBA as he did.</div>Jordan didnt have to worry about the refs as much because they were on his side like D-Wade. The NBA catered to their marketing king.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drake24 @ May 26 2007, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I haven't read through this thread, so I don't know what was said and what wasn't, but after I post this, I will look through some stuff. Consider this my intro to the thread.Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are some of the only players that seem to get in this "zone" defensively and offensively. Where, what ever they want to accomplish, they do. Whatever they throw up at the basket- goes in. Whenever they reach- they get a steal. Their passes are on target, their cross-overs are effective, and their leadership brings their teammates up a notch. There aren't a lot of players that have ever reached this level, and I really only see Kobe that can- that is active in the league right now.One big difference that I have noticed between these two is this, after a player stops Kobe on offense (blocks his shot, steals the ball, whatever) Kobe looks right to the ref and complains (a good amount of times) while the rest of the Lakers hurry back on defense (for the most part). When this happend to Michael Jordan, he got back on defense and fixed his mistake. He stole the ball, blocked a break-away layup, slapped the ball out of bounds, he did whatever he could. You made him look bad- and you paid. That was one thing I loved about Michael Jordan, but I don't see in Kobe. Although Kobe is the only player in the NBA right now that you can try to compare with Michael Jordan, I still would take Jordan over Kobe Bryant. It is always hard trying to compare players from different eras (they were different enough).Regardless of how this goes, there will never be another Michael Jordan. There will be people that play better than him, but their will never be a player that effected the NBA as he did.</div>http://youtube.com/watch?v=55ngZg3BGvUhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=MBKr9z2t0D8http://youtube.com/watch?v=t3Xnj2BvVXkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=ErH-r4Ed9JUhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=e7Tq3SYJjPEhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=Jvws253AHFEI understand where you're coming from. Because Kobe does look at the refs a lot after he gets stolen or blocked, but I'd say he goes down and looks for the block more often than not.
Is this even really debatable?Jordan in a landslide.First off Jordan has 4 MVP?s and 6 Titles being the main man on those teams.Kobe has Zero MVP?s and 3 titles sharing the spotlight with Shaq.Jordan was DPOYKobe? not so muchJordan 9 time all NBA 1st team NBA DefenseKobe 6 1st team 2 2nd teamJordan 10 scoring titles scoring avg 30.1 even with the Wizard years (15 seasons)Kobe 2 titles scoring avg 24.6 (11 Seasons)Jordan 5.3 apg 6.2 rpg 2500 steals 893 blocksKobe 4.5 apg 5.1 rpg 1059 steals 430 blocks (remember only 4 years difference)So where is Kobe even remotely better?WHERE? WHERE? WHERE?Like flava flav said "Don't believe the HYPE!"
[quote name='CelticFan' post='369915' date='Jun 1 2007, 07:44 AM']First off Jordan has 4 MVP?s and 6 Titles being the main man on those teams.Kobe has Zero MVP?s and 3 titles sharing the spotlight with Shaq.[/quote]Again, you can't blame Kobe for Jerry West putting him on the same team as a center that would have forced MJ himself to take a backseat. He has only been the main man for 2 years (excluding year 1 where he was hurt). Jordan was DPOY once. Kobe still has many years left to achieve that.Same for youre 2nd point. Kobe has been the man only 2 years, so again, totally unfair to compare. But in those 2 years he had his only 2 scoring titles, and some of the scoring accomplishments within those 2 years have been greater than what Jordan has done (81pt game, multiple 40PPG months, 50pts in 4 straight games, etc...). Kobe got very little playing time his first few seasons which hurt his career stats. He also played in the triangle which makes assists with great role players which makes assists harder to come by (as you can see with Jordan's stats from early in his career to later).You can't use career stats when comparing a retired player to a player just reaching his prime, especially when the retired player got 40MPG right off the bat and never was forced with a teammates who made him take a backseat, whereas the current player didn't play his first few seasons and has been the man for only 2 years.No one said Kobe is better. BUT, he has all the talent Jordan did, and in the past 2 years has played the game almost as well as Jordan ever did and better than any other SG in league history.
Tell you the truth their both pretty much the same to me. Only thing is people go with Jordan more because in his "prime" he accomplish more than what Kobe did. Still both good defenders, both good shooters, good clutch players, free throw shooters, rebounders, and the list goes on and on. For saying no true get a freaking clue their not much difference in them skills wise, other than one had more rings then the other.
Kobe is just hitting his prime?dude is 29 years old 11 years in the league!Kobe is a great talent for sure, but it's insulting to insinuate he's on MJ's level IMO.sure he plays a pretty youtube game that makes him exciting to watch.but when it comes to results, Jordan is by far the superior talent.Hey Dirk's a pretty good player too, damn he's as good as Larry Bird.oh wait, Bird murders him in intangibles and feel for the game.3 MVP's in a row oh and 3 titles playing in a much tougher era because there were 3, then 2 dominant teams in the early/mid 80's.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 1 2007, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe is just hitting his prime?dude is 29 years old 11 years in the league!</div>Most players just reach their prime at around 30 years old. Every single year he has improved. Hell, MJ was a 30PPG scorer when he was in his mid-30's....there is no reason to believe Kobe can't do the same.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe is a great talent for sure, but it's insulting to insinuate he's on MJ's level IMO.sure he plays a pretty youtube game that makes him exciting to watch.but when it comes to results, Jordan is by far the superior talent.</div>How does Kobe not get it done? He has brought Lamar Odom and a bunch of below average/NBDL level talent to a 7th seed in the West 2 years in a row (with above .500 record, something MJ failed to do early in his career without Pippen). He has 3 rings on a team in which he played as big of a part as anyone, he has a ton of awards and individual accomplishments, and is dominating the league like no one else outside of MJ has in the past 20 years or so.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Hey Dirk's a pretty good player too, damn he's as good as Larry Bird.oh wait, Bird murders him in intangibles and feel for the game.3 MVP's in a row oh and 3 titles playing in a much tougher era because there were 3, then 2 dominant teams in the early/mid 80's.</div>Dirk is nowhere near as good as Larry Bird and it's a totally different comparison. Unlike the Dirk/Bird comparisons, Kobe and MJ are about level with their mentalities, smarts, and skill levels. Only difference is that for his first 8 years MJ didn't have to play behind anyone. Kobe had to do that, and if MJ was drafted in '96 and traded to the Lakers, he would have had to do the same. Kobe is as talented as anyone who has ever stepped foot in the league, and unlike someone like T-Mac, he has the mentality and intangibles (clutch, winner, great defender, etc...) to make it a fair comparison. Does anyone rank Kobe in top 5 all time? Of course not, but it has to do more with career accomplishments than the player he is right now entering his prime, who is playing at top 5 all time level.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 1 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Most players just reach their prime at around 30 years old. Every single year he has improved. Hell, MJ was a 30PPG scorer when he was in his mid-30's....there is no reason to believe Kobe can't do the same.</div>I disagree. That's part of what made Jordan great. Longevity. How many players averaged 30+PPG in their 30s? But with the new rules that cater to guards, he should be able to come close. People bring up how Jordan used to get a lot of calls back then, but those calls are flagrants compared to the ridiculous calls players get now. And Jordan aggresively attacked the rim on a nightly basis. Kobe's calls, from what I've seen, come on jumpshots.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 1 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How does Kobe not get it done? He has brought Lamar Odom and a bunch of below average/NBDL level talent to a 7th seed in the West 2 years in a row (with above .500 record, something MJ failed to do early in his career without Pippen). He has 3 rings on a team in which he played as big of a part as anyone, he has a ton of awards and individual accomplishments, and is dominating the league like no one else outside of MJ has in the past 20 years or so.Dirk is nowhere near as good as Larry Bird and it's a totally different comparison. Unlike the Dirk/Bird comparisons, Kobe and MJ are about level with their mentalities, smarts, and skill levels. Only difference is that for his first 8 years MJ didn't have to play behind anyone. Kobe had to do that, and if MJ was drafted in '96 and traded to the Lakers, he would have had to do the same.</div>I credit the Lakers' recent "success" (making the playoffs) to Phil Jackson. I actually think the Lakers had better players in Kobe's first post-Shaq season. I'd keep Caron over Kwame any day of the century. Sure, Kobe got injured for a bit, but their record didn't really get worse. I think their record without him was better that year. And I disagree that Jordan and Kobe are on the same level of smarts. Kobe's shot selection needs to improve. And defensively MJ was on a different planet. Especially this past year, Kobe's defense has been atrocious. It's like he doesn't even care. He almost makes Smush look like an NBA player on the defensive end. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 1 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe is as talented as anyone who has ever stepped foot in the league, and unlike someone like T-Mac, he has the mentality and intangibles (clutch, winner, great defender, etc...) to make it a fair comparison. Does anyone rank Kobe in top 5 all time? Of course not, but it has to do more with career accomplishments than the player he is right now entering his prime, who is playing at top 5 all time level.</div>If Kobe can LEAD a team to a championship. I'd rank him Top 10. Right now I think he's Top 15-20. I just can't see Kobe leading a team to anything but a 1st round knockout every season. He hasn't shown that unique ability to lead that the greats had. I'm still waiting to see it, but I don't think it's gonna happen.
Before I post, PLEASE read one of my first posts in which I said MJ is clearly the best player of all time and I'd take him over Kobe. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Let Em Hear This @ Jun 7 2007, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I disagree. That's part of what made Jordan great. Longevity. How many players averaged 30+PPG in their 30s? But with the new rules that cater to guards, he should be able to come close. People bring up how Jordan used to get a lot of calls back then, but those calls are flagrants compared to the ridiculous calls players get now. And Jordan aggresively attacked the rim on a nightly basis. Kobe's calls, from what I've seen, come on jumpshots.</div>Late in his career MJ played much like Kobe does now and got touch fouls. He also got fouled mostly on a pump fakes and leaning into defender then taking the jumpshot.Kobe has all the amazing tools that made MJ so successful 'till the very end...smarts, footwork and how to manipulate every facet of the game.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I credit the Lakers' recent "success" (making the playoffs) to Phil Jackson. I actually think the Lakers had better players in Kobe's first post-Shaq season. I'd keep Caron over Kwame any day of the century. Sure, Kobe got injured for a bit, but their record didn't really get worse. I think their record without him was better that year. And I disagree that Jordan and Kobe are on the same level of smarts. Kobe's shot selection needs to improve. And defensively MJ was on a different planet. Especially this past year, Kobe's defense has been atrocious. It's like he doesn't even care. He almost makes Smush look like an NBA player on the defensive end.</div>Kobe had plantar facsitis (sp?) the whole season, was out of action quite a bit, Lamar wa shurt for a month, coaching change midway through the year, etc... Despite this they were on line to make the playoffs until Kobe went down. Kobe has CARRIED this team. Hell, last year they didn't even run the triangle most of the time, it was just Kobe ball.Kobe's shot selection could improve, but check out his fundementals, how he uses angles and the defenders mindset against them, his footwork, etc.. Kobe takes more difficult shots than MJ simply because he can make those 3pt fadeaways. And when he gets hot, it makes him more dangerous than MJ was.Yes, defensively MJ was better, but when Kobe wants to lockdown a superstar he can (see: T-Mac in '04, that was an amazing defensive display).<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If Kobe can LEAD a team to a championship. I'd rank him Top 10. Right now I think he's Top 15-20. I just can't see Kobe leading a team to anything but a 1st round knockout every season. He hasn't shown that unique ability to lead that the greats had. I'm still waiting to see it, but I don't think it's gonna happen.</div>In the West it is impossible to win without a great supporting cast. What they have now, Lamar Odom (Mr inconsistent) and a bunch of average/below average/NBDL level players, they just aren't going to beat any of the top 5 Western teams. MJ never won until he had a very good supporting cast, and neither will Kobe. Kobe has all the killer instinct and winner's mentality to get anything he wants done, but he needs the help.
Nitro, you need to give this a read.http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nbaand the fact that you were what 6,7 years old when Jordan won his last championship severly discredits your input on him.I grew up watching mid to late 80's basketball and cruised into the 90's too.I've seen tons of Jordan games not just the highlights.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 7 2007, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nitro, you need to give this a read.http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nbaand the fact that you were what 6,7 years old when Jordan won his last championship severly discredits your input on him.I grew up watching mid to late 80's basketball and cruised into the 90's too.I've seen tons of Jordan games not just the highlights.</div>Do you have ANY idea how many MJ games I have watched? Just because I was only 8 years old when MJ won his last championship doesn't mean I haven't seen a TON of full length MJ games. Whether it be by downloading them online, to seeing them on ESPN classic, or watching tapes we (dad and I) recorded when MJ was in his last 3 peat (I was a HUGE MJ fan), I have seen many MJ games. I already gave my opinion to why I call him the ngreatest player ever. He is the greatest scorer we have ever seen, he was arguably the best perimeter defender of his era, had the killer instinct and heart of a champion that is extremely rare in sports, and revolutionized the game like never before.Why I keep defending Kobe is because people seriously take what he is doing for granted because MJ is looked at as a figure who will never be touched. Kobe is the 2nd best perimeter scorer of all time IMO, a great defender, has the killer instinct that made MJ great, and his accomplishments are fast growing. I doubt Kobe will ever be better than MJ through my eyes, but I believe it is a fair comparison to be made. Right now Kobe is playing basketball at a level we haven't seen since MJ.
this is a Kobe vs Jordan thread, and personally I just don't think they're close in comparison.Kobe tries to emulate Jordan, but he's not nearly as good.the stats, achievements and results show this.For me, Kobe Bryant is just trying to hard to be like MJ, moves and all.Kinda like Brittney trying to be like Madonna.it's nice and all, but not even close to the real thing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 7 2007, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>this is a Kobe vs Jordan thread, and personally I just don't think they're close in comparison.Kobe tries to emulate Jordan, but he's not nearly as good.the stats, achievements and results show this.For me, Kobe Bryant is just trying to hard to be like MJ, moves and all.Kinda like Brittney trying to be like Madonna.it's nice and all, but not even close to the real thing.</div>Kobe does a lot of things different, and takes things from other players as well. MJ did the same thing with the likes of Dr. J/Elgin Baylor. Kobe is the second greatest SG of all time, and already a top 15 player all time. He isn't MJ, but he is only 29 and has just reached his prime.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 7 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you have ANY idea how many MJ games I have watched? Just because I was only 8 years old when MJ won his last championship doesn't mean I haven't seen a TON of full length MJ games. Whether it be by downloading them online, to seeing them on ESPN classic, or watching tapes we (dad and I) recorded when MJ was in his last 3 peat (I was a HUGE MJ fan), I have seen many MJ games. I already gave my opinion to why I call him the ngreatest player ever. He is the greatest scorer we have ever seen, he was arguably the best perimeter defender of his era, had the killer instinct and heart of a champion that is extremely rare in sports, and revolutionized the game like never before.Why I keep defending Kobe is because people seriously take what he is doing for granted because MJ is looked at as a figure who will never be touched. Kobe is the 2nd best perimeter scorer of all time IMO, a great defender, has the killer instinct that made MJ great, and his accomplishments are fast growing. I doubt Kobe will ever be better than MJ through my eyes, but I believe it is a fair comparison to be made. Right now Kobe is playing basketball at a level we haven't seen since MJ.</div>MJ was a shadow of his former self in the second three-peat. He was already 30+. You couldn't have seen nearly enough Jordan games from watching ESPN Classic games. They only select the more memorable games. There were plenty of other players with the same skill level as Kobe. But none could touch Jordan. The problem I have with Kobe fans is the ongoing excuses for Kobe for not being successful and giving him all the credit for any success they have. Kobe fans are just downright ridiculous. When things are going bad, they blame his teammates, coach, and/or management. When will Kobe get blame from you people? I swear Kobe fans are some of the worst type of fans in the world of any sport. And whose list has Kobe at top 15? Top 20 is a giant MAYBE, but 15? Let's get real. He's not Top 15. You can't jack up a lot of shots and score a lot of points and then automatically be a Top 15 player. Jordan could've easily duplicated and bettered Kobe's accomplishments. But to Jordan, winning is everything. Kobe would much rather be "the man" than win. And that's the main reason Kobe is one of the most hated NBA player of all time. He puts himself above others. He puts individual success over team success. That's why he should've went to college. Teach the guy some teamwork. Comradery. I hate how people worship this one-on-one basketball. I wouldn't mind if Kobe jacked shots 8-10 feet from the rim. That'd just be smart. But he's NOT taking it to the rim. He's jacking threes and ignoring his teammates. That's not respectable.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Let Em Hear This @ Jun 13 2007, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>MJ was a shadow of his former self in the second three-peat. He was already 30+. You couldn't have seen nearly enough Jordan games from watching ESPN Classic games. They only select the more memorable games. There were plenty of other players with the same skill level as Kobe. But none could touch Jordan. The problem I have with Kobe fans is the ongoing excuses for Kobe for not being successful and giving him all the credit for any success they have. Kobe fans are just downright ridiculous. When things are going bad, they blame his teammates, coach, and/or management. When will Kobe get blame from you people? I swear Kobe fans are some of the worst type of fans in the world of any sport. And whose list has Kobe at top 15? Top 20 is a giant MAYBE, but 15? Let's get real. He's not Top 15. You can't jack up a lot of shots and score a lot of points and then automatically be a Top 15 player. Jordan could've easily duplicated and bettered Kobe's accomplishments. But to Jordan, winning is everything. Kobe would much rather be "the man" than win. And that's the main reason Kobe is one of the most hated NBA player of all time. He puts himself above others. He puts individual success over team success. That's why he should've went to college. Teach the guy some teamwork. Comradery. I hate how people worship this one-on-one basketball. I wouldn't mind if Kobe jacked shots 8-10 feet from the rim. That'd just be smart. But he's NOT taking it to the rim. He's jacking threes and ignoring his teammates. That's not respectable.</div>woooooo wooo wooothank you thank you thank you!I owe you a 6-pack for the post!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Let Em Hear This @ Jun 13 2007, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>MJ was a shadow of his former self in the second three-peat. He was already 30+. You couldn't have seen nearly enough Jordan games from watching ESPN Classic games. They only select the more memorable games. There were plenty of other players with the same skill level as Kobe. But none could touch Jordan. The problem I have with Kobe fans is the ongoing excuses for Kobe for not being successful and giving him all the credit for any success they have. Kobe fans are just downright ridiculous. When things are going bad, they blame his teammates, coach, and/or management. When will Kobe get blame from you people? I swear Kobe fans are some of the worst type of fans in the world of any sport. And whose list has Kobe at top 15? Top 20 is a giant MAYBE, but 15? Let's get real. He's not Top 15. You can't jack up a lot of shots and score a lot of points and then automatically be a Top 15 player. Jordan could've easily duplicated and bettered Kobe's accomplishments. But to Jordan, winning is everything. Kobe would much rather be "the man" than win. And that's the main reason Kobe is one of the most hated NBA player of all time. He puts himself above others. He puts individual success over team success. That's why he should've went to college. Teach the guy some teamwork. Comradery. I hate how people worship this one-on-one basketball. I wouldn't mind if Kobe jacked shots 8-10 feet from the rim. That'd just be smart. But he's NOT taking it to the rim. He's jacking threes and ignoring his teammates. That's not respectable.</div>I second this post...Kobe fans feel Kobe is the best because of his scoring not because of his team play...he's not a team player...I would hope you could score 81 when you shoot 40-50 times...Jordan is the better all around player because he cared about winning and making his teammates better not scoring 60...
[quote name='Let Em Hear This' post='379408' date='Jun 13 2007, 12:33 PM']MJ was a shadow of his former self in the second three-peat. He was already 30+. You couldn't have seen nearly enough Jordan games from watching ESPN Classic games. They only select the more memorable games.[/quote]MJ was in his prime during the first 3 peat, but he was smarter and more skilled as an offensive player in the 2nd 3 peat (fundementals, footwork, jumpshot, manipulating defense, etc...). Through watching games online (if you haven't noticed, you can find or request just about any game you want to see online) I have seen MJ through every stage of his career. I have seen almost every Finals game he ever played, and just about every memorable game he played in. In other words, I have a great understanding of what MJ was about, and it is why I consider him the GOAT. Just because I wasn't old enough to see him play live in the '80's and early '90's doesn't mean I haven't seen those games. Like? Dr. J? Elgin Baylor? Grant Hill? Penny? T-Mac (who is my favorite player)? LeBron? I cannot name one perimeter player more gifted offensively as Kobe. MJ was the smarter scorer, but Kobe is more talented due to FAR superior jumpshot from any range. Unfortunately Kobe is so talented as a jumpshooter that, like T-Mac, he tends to fall in love with it and his FG % has never approached MJ level. But from a pure talent standpoint, Kobe is IMO the most talented scorer we have ever seen. And while it doesn't mean a ton, we have never seen a perimeter scorer get as hot and unstoppable as Kobe is able to get...we are truly witnessing history with his amazing 60+ point games, streaks of 40, 45 and 50pt games, etc... Agree completely here, Laker/Kobe fans are the most annoying fans in the basketball world. I have him as a top 15 player already. Who would YOU put above Kobe all time? Kobe sacrificed his first 8 years to winning. He was the playmaker for the 3 peat Lakers and did all the dirty work for that team. He is not at fault for Shaq's departure, and even Shaq himself said that. In the past 3 years Kobe has just done what MJ did for the first 3-5 years or so of his career....lots of individual accomplishments with no playoff success to show for it. Kobe then asks to be traded as the Lakers manangement has done nothing to build a championship-caliber squad around him and he wants to be in a winning situation, yet you blast him for that?It's a no win situation with people like you. So the #1 selling jersey in the league and getting MVP chants in places like Atlanta and BOSTON(!) is being one of the most hated players of all time? Right... Like Jordan didn't put himself above all the rest? Screaming at teammates to give him the ball despite when they were on fire? It took a VERY special cast of unselfish players for the Bulls to win rings. MJ never had to deal with a guy like Shaq, who is one of the most selfish players of all time. They would have blew up at each other far worse than the Kobe-Shaq feud was. Kobe has been constantly praised by his teammates the past year or so for his leadership, encouragement and willingness to get them the ball and give them a chance. It worked until they got injured and he had to have a 40PPG month just to get them into the playoffs. That is not being selfish, that is doing what it takes to win, just like what MJ would have done. It is what really seperate Jordan and Kobe from most other players in NBA history.
