I've seen Bird, Magic, Jordan, & Kobe play, IMO LeBron is the G.O.A.T

Jordan has more scoring titles, more MVPs, more Finals MVPs, a DPOY award, twice as many championships all in less seasons. He had a will win that LeBron has never shown. I only go back to 1989 so I can't really comment on Bird, Magic, or players before that. Has LeBron even accomplished more than Hakeem Olajuwon? Barely. And what about Tim Duncan who created a dynasty that beat LeBron twice (nearly 3 times) in the Finals? Anyway, no, LeBron is not the GOAT. He's an awesome Top 10 player that we are all lucky to be watching right now.

 

I'll answer you in Post #1000 in August.

 

Ummm in 2007 maybe but in 2011-2014, his number 3 "scrub" was HOFer Chris Bosh. And from 2015-2017, the "scrub" was All Star Kevin Love. He has a lot less to work with this year but he hasn't exactly taken them to the Finals. They barely got out of the first round. LeBron jumped on the scoring table after winning a Game 5 in the FIRST ROUND. Take that in.

 

Did you start watching basketball this afternoon???!??

 

Yes. Definitely. You can be just amazing without being the GOAT.

 

I think you're right but you've got to agree that he kind of looks like he's on steroids.

 

one was the best of a certain era. The other at his. I don’t think you can say one is better than the other because you don’t know how either would of played the game in each other’s time. They are both amazing. It’s tough to say of all time. At this point I just seperate them by different times of ball. The game has changed so much since Jordan’s time.

 

The rules today are very different from the 80's and 90's.

Put Jordan in today's game and he would be more dominant

 

What about Harden & Curry? Oh and that triple double kid and our boy Dame?

 

It's a fair argument to say defenders are quicker laterally since the don't have the added benefit of hamdchecking. Players are definitely bigger and more athletic than they used to be, which would make a difference. I don't agree with this statement.

 

LeBron is legitimately in the conversation for GOAT, which is a massive statement in itself.

One point I'm always surprised people never bring up is that while Jordan never hopped around to different teams, he also never really achieved anything without Pippen and Phil Jackson. People hold it against LeBron because he moved around, as though it's easy to join a new system and create a contender in the blink of an eye. Jordan just had to rinse and repeat what he did every year once the pieces were in place. Sure, he added the most lethal fade-away post move of all time as he got older, but he never really had to deal with team change the way LeBron did. He didn't have to figure out how to make it work by himself, then make it work with Wade/Bosh, then make it work with Kyrie and Love, then make it work basically by himself again.

I really admire LeBron's ability to excel with such a wide range of Alphas (and no Alphas) around him. If Jordan had taken the same career path LeBron did, I don't think he would've found LeBron's success. I think he would have had some years where his competitive nature would've just alienated the other Alpha(s), kind of like prime Kobe did with Shaq, and shit would've imploded.

Kind of tied to that, it really seems like LeBron will be remembered as a guy who controlled his own destiny. He moved where he wanted to when he wanted to, and success followed him. He didn't put his fate in the hands of a franchise--he did his thing when he wanted to. Jordan spent years complaining about "Crumbs", but he never really took charge beyond the court, except to quit and then un-quit. Given his career as a Wizard and then a GM, it was probably good that he didn't.

You could say Jordan was just being loyal to a franchise, which is true, but the essence of loyalty is to cede control of part of your fate to someone else. Personally, I often value autonomy over loyalty, so maybe that's why I admire LeBron's achievements more.

I'm glad I got to watch both in their primes. LeBron has my vote for GOAT, but I can definitely see how reasonable people could disagree.

 

The guy ALWAYS delivers. When was the last time he had a bad game when his team needed him the most? 2011?

 

Definitely. To be doing what he is doing at his age it would seem like he is on something.

I would take the primes of other players over Lebron but on the whole it is getting harder to argue against him. Jordan retired twice plus had a lack luster finish with Washington. Lebron got extra years due to coming out from high school and is still competing for championships.

 

Would love to see Harden and Jordan both in their prime square off. Do not think James would get a single MVP vote after MJ trashed him regularly.