You Be the GM

IMO, there is growth in his game. You disagree. I disagree with your logic, especially on these draftpicks. Is what it is.

 

There’s a lot that goes into it, if we’re playing GM, how good do we think Ayton (or whoever we picked at #1 is, what is there potential, how close is Dame to his peak, how close is the team currently constructed to their peak). I will say I think there is something to height in today’s NBA. Look at all the teams left, they have Dame sized PG then everyone else is taller has more length and can switch defensively.
Now I can see the argument of giving them more time to figure it out, or at the least trying out a new coach to see if schematically there is something they can do (on both ends) to fix some of the height issues. One thing we don’t talk about much is even on offense the height is an issue as Dame and CJ don’t have the same drive and kick lanes as taller ball handlers, their forced to play differently on offense because one of them is always matched up with a taller longer player.
Now do they blow it up on prospects and draft choices? I dunno, there seems to be about equal chance of finding the next great bust as there is finding someone close to as good as Dame and CJ are now.
Now who knows if NO can pull off anything this summer that makes them quite a bit better while keeping Dame and CJ, but it seems like that’s how things are going so it’ll be interesting what they do, or don’t do.

 

See, I don't think their height would be an issue if they had a big SF who could handle the ball and make plays. It's what Turner is supposed to be but for some reason he stopped passing last year and had his 2nd lowest assist per game total of his career (only his rookie year was worse). The problem becomes finding a way to get a guy like that on our team.

 

You might be right, and that’s part of why I said getting a new coach with a new approach could help. I think there is a reason why height is something every GM / scout looks at though and while it can be over come, I do believe it is a challenge.

 

Turner stopped passing because of McLillard ISO ball... passing/not passing is contagious... when your 2 leaders are over dribbling and going 1 on 3 it doesn’t inspire the others to share the ball because they probably won’t get it back

 

To me this was the 1st year I can remember where Lillard at times got visibly frustrated with team mates. It seemed like he would start off most games trying to run the offense make smart plays, attack when there was an opportunity, but there were a lot of games where he would get tired of watching the bricks and turn overs and sloppy play and decide to go one on 5. The Phoenix game where they were down by like 20 came to mind, he just kind of said screw it I’ll do it myself.

I think CJ is the guy who really struggles with not being that willing of a passer. I think Dame has gotten a lot better at setting up guys. The Nurkic Dame PnR was one of their best plays.
They just need the other guys to hit shots, and more importantly when the defender gets to them, to not make bone-headed plays. Too many times they’d run a play one of the wings or a big would get the ball and dribble it off a leg, or over dribble or whateve. I think Dame seemed frustrated at times this year.

 

Actually Dame's assists went up this year compared to the previous year and it was the 2nd most in his career. His usage rate went down so less ISO ball.

 

Dame does do his share of passing and setting up teammates but he is still a shoot first PG... combine that with CJ going 1 on 3 with teammates wide open and the net effect is no flow to a “flow” offense... I don’t have a problem with either player individually, they are both talented... it’s just both are ISO ball scorers at heart and the combo will never work... they won’t chnge the way they have played their entire life at 27 years old

 

You say Turner's assists went down because of Dame and CJ ISO ball. I gave you numbers that prove Dame had the ball less while having more assists. You come back at me with how the back court will never work. That still doesn't explain Turner going from a pass first player to an ISO ball player who rarely passes.

 

In fact, CJ's usage rate also went down from the previous two seasons so your argument really doesn't hold water when it comes to Turner's role.

 

There is just no path to success with keeping Dame and CJ together... NONE. Even if we bring back same roster as last season with no additions, that puts team 20 mil over the luxury tax for a roster that couldn’t even win 1 game in playoffs. There is no reality where the Dame/CJ combo will ever contend. If you are waiting until we have cap room, then Dame and CJ will be near 30 and starting their decline, and be up for new contracts that will probably cost 30+ mil for each player... and even if you were able to retool the roster at that time, there are probably other young players and teams who’s development has far surpassed the Blazers... it’s sad because Dame and CJ have some real trade value now, but unfortunately Neil is trying to force the issue and will wait til their trade values are greatly diminished as the get close to 30

 

Near 30? as if that's old? In 2 years they will be 28 and 30 which is younger than Toronto, Houston. NO and GS back court right now along with several others as well. You need to stop acting like they are old.

 

the real question is how much is CJ actually worth? If they best they can do is CJ and the 24 and get up to like 10th? I don't take that deal. The only way I would is if I can get like in the top 5 or 6. However, I don't know if other GM's think CJ is worth that. Then you get into another we're retooling around Dame round, and how many of those retools is he willing to go through?
Dame is their best asset and could probably get them in the top 3, but the chances the player the draft ever becomes as good as Dame is pretty low. It's a weird position. If they go complete blow it up mode then they're going to be bad for a few years and most of fans would find it tough to be patient during the reconstruction phase (again).

It's a lot easier to say lets trade CJ and whatever to move up to the 4th! than it is to actually pull that off and get another GM to agree with it, they're trying to keep their job too. I think maybe the most interesting part of all of this is what is CJ's trade value, because I kind of suspect it's not as high as a lot of us think it is, which is one of the reasons why NO hasn't moved him already.

 

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Are you not capable of having a discussion without resorting back to this? Putting a capable wing who can handle the ball, create his own shot, and make plays for others would absolutely make it so Dame and CJ could exist on a contending team.

Last year the argument was that they couldn't co-exist because the defense would never be good enough. Well they were 7th in defensive rating this year so that disproves that theory. Now it's because they play too much ISO ball when the numbers actually show they decreased their usage rates this year.

Now the question is: How do they get that wing? There have been lots of ideas in here.

You know what I haven't seen from all of your repetitive posts? A single realistic idea of who you would trade CJ for to balance out the roster. You'd probably be taken a little more seriously if you had an actual plan to get better.

 

He wants to trade Lillard & CJ because they're basically 40 years old.
His plan would be getting the 1st overall for Lillard and a top 10 pick for CJ.
Cause players who are basically 40 totally command that sort of value.

 

I've spent way too much time reading other forums of various teams. Even the thoughts on other site's can properly gauge CJ's value. I think Philly is a perfect place for him. I've seen everything from I'd give up Fultz, Covington, Bayless, and #10 for him to I wouldn't really give up much for him. Same thing on a Bucks sits in which some would give up a package around Middleton, Brogdon, and #17 and others don't think he fits well with the Greek Freak. I've seen national writers say the Cavs would give up Love and #8 for him, which we all think they wouldn't ever do.

I really don't see the Suns trading the 1st pick.

The Kings aren't going to trade the 2nd pick for CJ, maybe Dame.

The Hawks aren't going to trade the 3rd pick for CJ, maybe Dame.

The Grizzlies I guess could consider trading #4 if we took on Parsons but that is a real long shot.

The Mavericks might have some interest in CJ but I still think the #5 pick is a little much for them to give up.

The Magic at #6 ummmmmm, who the fuck knows with them?

The Bulls probably don't have any use for CJ at #7

The Cavs at 8 I already mentioned. After that we are getting into the range where as you mentioned trading CJ isn't bringing back enough value. If they go full rebuild they HAVE to stick to it and go All-In. If they can't get the 2nd pick for Dame and at worse the 8th pick for CJ then it really doesn't make sense to trade them in a full rebuild mode. We don't even know if the other teams would do that. To me it seems easier to make some minor trades to get some mid 1st round picks and shoot for home runs that way to help Dame and CJ out.

 

That is why I said a realistic CJ trade that would balance the roster. I just want one legit one from him.