Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? once again, Dirk and Nash are going to pitted against each other sometime in the playoffs. they're obviously doing great without each other, but one didn't become a superstar until they went their own way. But I still don't understand why they couldn't get great together. Why not?
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>once again, Dirk and Nash are going to pitted against each other sometime in the playoffs.</div>Whoa, that's not a guarantee at all. And why they never won it all together is simple. Just put yourself back when they were together and look at the team. It was offensive oriented with no defense. Plus, put in how Nash and Dirk would play off each other and not themselves. Their games were never going to fully evolve unless they became the man of their team. Which is what happened when Nash left for the Suns.And no one seems to notice this but Mavs fans. Steve Nash has said after he signed with the Suns, his offseasons became more focused and intense. His days of vacationing in the offseason during Mavs seasons were over. It's easy to say why these two never won it together now after they've become different players. Just look back when they played, it'll tell you why.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? Exactly what Rok said. Ask anyone in the NBA and they'll tell you neither guys would be MVP candidates if they hadn't seperated. They needed the oppurtunity to grow and mature as leaders and players. Both Nowitzki and Nash got into a system where they suceed and they have blossomed.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together because of lack of D when they were together. They always had a deep team and solid man defenders but the team defense wasn't there. When they were together they had great players such as Lafrentz, Stack, Finley, Van Exel, Jamison, Toine etc. There coach, Don Nelson, focused on shooting and hitting shots and defense wasn't given that much attention. When Nash left it was before Avery Johnson came in. When Avery came in he wanted to improve D and made Dirk shoot more points in the paint then far range. This made Dirk harder to guard because of ways he can score on you. Howard developed, Harris developed, and Jason Terry came in to fill Nash's place. Avery made them ALOT better on D.Now when Nash went to PHX he was perfect for the offense because of his deadly shot, quick agility, and good court vision. He was the guy who had to carry this team. PHX focuses on running the break and the pick and rolls. Amare was perfect. With Nash's flashy passes and agility it made the pick n roll tougher to beat. Also the pick and roll opens shots for the shooters on the team.Dirk and Nash both had to adjust there style of play.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? You know what I said the other day to a friend of mine? "It's funny how ten years from now kids will be asking why Nash and Dirk, the guys who won three MVPs combined, didn't win a ring together playing alongside four other allstars. That's how quickly people forget". I didn't think that ten years from now meant a week.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? Everyone pretty much said it. They both needed to leave eachother to reach their full potential and now they are in the best place they could be for themselves. Nice article about them in this week's SI, btw.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? Look at the team then and now. Phoenix and Dallas have way more talent now then Dallas used to.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? Well, I think there are 3 reasons why Nash and Nowitzki never won anything when they were together.1) When Nash was with Nowitzki, the Mavs relied on him to run the offense for everyone, whereas with the current Mavs it is an iso system where players are to create for themselves. I think that system is alot better for the Mavs because Dirk is obviously an iso guy...He likes to make pump fakes, back you down for a turnaround, etc...and Josh Howard and Jason Terry are also iso oriented players...Their whole team actually benefits from the new system.2) Defense....With Nash and Nowitzki, defense was not stressed at all....and I think that is the biggest reason why the Mavs never got anywhere when Nash was on the team..The Suns of course are different, because they have the best offense the League has seen since Showtime....but if you look at other examples like the Warriors and Pacers for example...Being an offensive oriented team might make your team inconsistent, because the offense will not always be there....and they don't have a defense to fall back on to get you wins...This really balloons once teams get to the playoffs as well, so that is a big reason why the Mavs never got anywhere back in the day.3) Avery Johnson. This guy might be doing the best coaching job out of anyone in the League. His offense is very good and efficient, and his defense is amazingly well done considering guys like the Jet and Dirk just can't play defense...Also, his commitment, dedication, and the fact that he is always working for something to improve on..Even this year when the Mavs are the best team in the league, he isn't satisfied at all. I'm positive that he still wants to improve the club on a number of different things. This is a rare thing that only championship caliber coaches have...and it certainly benefits the Mavs.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? 1) When Nash was with Nowitzki, the Mavs relied on him to run the offense for everyone, whereas with the current Mavs it is an iso system where players are to create for themselves. I think that system is alot better for the Mavs because Dirk is obviously an iso guy...He likes to make pump fakes, back you down for a turnaround, etc...and Josh Howard and Jason Terry are also iso oriented players...Their whole team actually benefits from the new system.When Nash played with Dallas the Mavs used him as more of a fastbreak architect, and in the half court used him sparingly. That's why his statistics have gotten so much better, and why he appears so much better - because he is actually relied upon to completely dictate a half court offense. He never did that in Dallas, which is a primary reason for why he has gotten so much better. 2) Defense....With Nash and Nowitzki, defense was not stressed at all....and I think that is the biggest reason why the Mavs never got anywhere when Nash was on the team..The Suns of course are different, because they have the best offense the League has seen since Showtime....but if you look at other examples like the Warriors and Pacers for example...Being an offensive oriented team might make your team inconsistent, because the offense will not always be there....and they don't have a defense to fall back on to get you wins...This really balloons once teams get to the playoffs as well, so that is a big reason why the Mavs never got anywhere back in the day.I pretty much agree, although anyone who says Dallas is a really good defensive team today has not seen them play. Yes Dallas tries harder, and stats might even make them a Top 5 defensive team in the league, but you watch them play and you realize its more their ability to control tempo than shutting guys down.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? Nash was not allowed to be himself in Dallas. He had to be the 2nd or 3rd option behind Dirk and Finley. In Phoenix he was given the opportunity to run the offense his way. He was given a couple of decent shooters, and a solid big man down low.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? If we had Avery has head coach at the time we would of won a Championship. Nelson doesn't teach defense..lol
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If we had Avery has head coach at the time we would of won a Championship. Nelson doesn't teach defense..lol</div>No we wouldn't. Just a defensive minded coach is not going to change that team. A lot of those players were offensive oriented and even if they put effort on the defensive end, would not be up to par.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Apr 22 2007, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No we wouldn't. Just a defensive minded coach is not going to change that team. A lot of those players were offensive oriented and even if they put effort on the defensive end, would not be up to par.</div>Yeah, having Shawn Bradley, Antawn Jamison, Nash, Dirk... they're not paragons of defense by any means.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? Nash landed in a place where he was put into the PERFECT system for him. I'm not saying that to discredit Nash, Nash is unbelievable. The Suns system is perfect for a player like Nash and he fits so well in it. I also agree that Dallas was all offense and no defense back in those days. Also Dallas has drafted an all-star, all around forward in Josh Howard, and a phonomenal backup point guard in Devin Harris. Dalls is a completely different team than they were back when Nash and Dirk played together.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? one thing I don't see being brought up is that Dallas very well could have won the championship in '03 had dirk not gotten injured.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? No toughness and no defense. The Mavs seemed to have fixed that, but the Suns still have that problem. They can't play good D, they can make defensive plays, but that's not enough to win it all.
Re: How Come Nash and Dirk couldn't do it together? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WELCOMEtotheJUNGLE @ Apr 22 2007, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash landed in a place where he was put into the PERFECT system for him. I'm not saying that to discredit Nash, Nash is unbelievable. The Suns system is perfect for a player like Nash and he fits so well in it. I also agree that Dallas was all offense and no defense back in those days. Also Dallas has drafted an all-star, all around forward in Josh Howard, and a phonomenal backup point guard in Devin Harris. Dalls is a completely different team than they were back when Nash and Dirk played together.</div>Put into the perfect system? I'm pretty sure that nash has alot more control of the offensive system in PHO than we think. I'm also sure that Nash knew for a long while what kind of offense he would like to run, so he signed with a team that fit his strengths. I also partly blame mark cuban, because I think that he put some limits on Nash which is why he didnt get the type of contract that he was looking for. But oh well, at least it has made for a great show every time those two lead their teams against each other.
