If you had a draft where ahead of time (of course this is impossible, but its an intresting topic), would you take a dominate center (Greg Oden/Russel/Chamberlain) or a great swingman (Kevin Durant/Michael Jordan). Its proven winner v proven winner, who do you take. I take the swignman in this situation. Not saying I wouldn't take Oden this year, but look at the details. We have had great centers before, but we have never had anyone even close to Michael jordan.
<span style="font-family:Arial">Michael Jordan is one of the very few exceptions of non big men who can lead their team to an NBA title. It doesn't happen often, Jordan is a once in a lifetime player. Unless I was guaranteed Michael Jordan, I would take a big man any day.</span>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Apr 22 2007, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Arial">Michael Jordan is one of the very few exceptions of non big men who can lead their team to an NBA title. It doesn't happen often, Jordan is a once in a lifetime player. Unless I was guaranteed Michael Jordan, I would take a big man any day.</span></div> My thoughts exactly. Especially nowadays, where serious centers are hard to come by. If you have that dominant factor down low, it expands your team's effectiveness completely and creates tons of openings for the other 4 guys on the floor. I'm not saying guys like T-Mac and Pierce don't create for others and create openings either, but you never take a franchise swingman over a franchise center (especially now).
Kevin Durant is now a Michael Jordan type player? Where did this come from? 7'0" 250+, great athletic ability, great potential, great work ethic, back to the basket game, defense. Greg Oden.
You're COMPLETELY off with your last sentance. We've had plenty of great swingmen in the past few years...we've had a few GREAT HOF Centers hmm..about once or twice every decadeTake these questions into account...besides Michael Jordan (who in no way is Durant like) what team won an NBA title without a dominant/defensive minded big man(or big men)? how many swingmen have won a championship in the last 15..16 years without a dominant big man(or big men)?2006: Shaquille O'Neal2005: Tim Duncan2004: Ben Wallace2003: David Robinson/Tim Duncan2002: Shaquille O'Neal2001: Shaquille O'Neal2000: Shaquille O'Neal1999: David Robinson/Tim Duncan1996-1998: Jordan Era1995: Hakeem Olajuwon1994: Hakeem Olajuwon1990-1993: Jordan EraGive me Greg Oden and the rings over Durant and the scoring titles
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Apr 22 2007, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You're COMPLETELY off with your last sentance. We've had plenty of great swingmen in the past few years...we've had a few GREAT HOF Centers hmm..about once or twice every decadeTake these questions into account...besides Michael Jordan (who in no way is Durant like) what team won an NBA title without a dominant/defensive minded big man(or big men)? how many swingmen have won a championship in the last 15..16 years without a dominant big man(or big men)?2006: Shaquille O'Neal2005: Tim Duncan2004: Ben Wallace2003: David Robinson/Tim Duncan2002: Shaquille O'Neal2001: Shaquille O'Neal2000: Shaquille O'Neal1999: David Robinson/Tim Duncan1996-1998: Jordan Era1995: Hakeem Olajuwon1994: Hakeem Olajuwon1990-1993: Jordan EraGive me Greg Oden and the rings over Durant and the scoring titles</div>There's a reason there have been so few great centers, because so many high draft picks have been busts. I think it's kind of funny how everyone thinks Oden will be great when he hasn't even played a game. He didn't impress me in the NCAA tourney much at all, so we'll see how that works out. I like Durant for this draft, unless your team really is in need of a big man.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Apr 22 2007, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There's a reason there have been so few great centers, because so many high draft picks have been busts. I think it's kind of funny how everyone thinks Oden will be great when he hasn't even played a game. He didn't impress me in the NCAA tourney much at all, so we'll see how that works out. I like Durant for this draft, unless your team really is in need of a big man.</div>25 and 12 doesn't impress you?Man alive.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Apr 22 2007, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There's a reason there have been so few great centers, because so many high draft picks have been busts. I think it's kind of funny how everyone thinks Oden will be great when he hasn't even played a game. He didn't impress me in the NCAA tourney much at all, so we'll see how that works out. I like Durant for this draft, unless your team really is in need of a big man.</div> Why do you keep judging him based off his development to this point? "Well, he didn't impress me in the tournament." Who honestly cares? He didn't flop in the tournament so I don't see how you can be so down on him, he had a great championship game performance. The guy has so many years ahead of him to develop and learn to use his size and you continue to just base everything of this season....a season where he had a bad wrist injury and a season where he had to learn to play with a VERY talented team. Your basing WAY too much off this season. Bigmen take longer to develope. Just look at the guy and watch him....how can you possibly not be in awe of the potential of this guy? He's an unbelievable prospect.....he's obviously a future great....name me all the 'prodigy' centers in the past 40 years that have flopped....I'm not talking Todd Fuller and Michael Olowokandi, I'm talking 'huge prospect' guys at the center position....You won't find many....Oden is hyped for a reason....
Exactly...they were right about Ewing..they were right about Duncan..they were right about Yao..they were right about Lebron.Players aren't hyped this much for no reason..honestly Kwame Brown wasn't hyped up to begin with..neither was Michael Olowokandi...that's because they aren't guaranteed to be great like Oden is and Ohio State doesn't build their offense around him so of course he isn't going to score as much..he still managed about 17 PPG with limited touches. You're a Suns fan so you probably don't understand how important defense is to winning titles.Greg Oden is going to be an impact player and he WANTS to be an impact player.I never heard Michael Olowokandi say he WANTS to be an impact player..bro Michael Olowokandi was all hype because of his size..did you know he didn't even pick up a basketball until he was 17 years old? Bro Oden has been playing his entire life and is proven against other top picks in the draft (as he showed in the Florida game)His one major weakness is his foul trouble but that's just mental and once he gets to the NBA they'll fix that with no problem..This guy is going to make a HUGE impact on the team that lands him..I'm talkin a 20+ win/playoffs impact...MAYBE not right away but there's a very good chance he will<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Apr 22 2007, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I like Durant for this draft, unless your team really is in need of a big man.</div>What team ISN'T in need of a big man besides Houston?Even Phoenix could use a big man and a TRUE CENTER like Oden to move Stoudemire back to his natural position and Shawn Marion back to his natural positionsame with San Antonio to move Duncan back to his natural position...Every team could use Oden and a player of his stature/physique
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Legacy @ Apr 22 2007, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>25 and 12 doesn't impress you?Man alive.</div>That was one game. What were his stats in the other games? And I think you maybe PFF, you already have him as a top 5 center of all time.BCB, I realize that he has a lot of potential, but did all the other busts that were centers and drafted 1 and 2 not have potential either? I think he'll be a good center, but I'd rather see him do something before I say he's going to be great and lead a team to a championship.
I'm just not sold on him yet. Maybe he'll be great, we'll see. I like the guys. I like the fact that he actually thought about going to school so I want to see him do well. He seems to be a good fellow, but I just like Durant better.Not saying Oden will be a total bust though. I don't think anyone will really regret drafting him, but I think Durant will make more of an impact in his career until Oden can show me that greatness that he's supposed to have.
ASUFan, I see your points, but I watched this guy combined, 12 times this season. I understand what the 'haters' believe. Sometimes Oden did dissapear, sure he was not Shaq on offense, sometimes he didn't look good on offense....but like the OSU announcers said all the time, it took most of the season for the team to get used to Oden....it's hard with a young team like OSU to suddenly change after 6 games and put in a 7'0" beast...it changes everything....I remember 1/3rd into the season the announcers said that the team was still trying to figure out how to play with him and get him involved. I'll admit, Oden was more raw coming into this season than I and many thought. Big guys coming out of high school often need a lot of work because in HS they simply dominated because of size, in HS Oden didn't have to do much, he was simply in another league, going to OSU....with his injury, it took him more time to get used to everything and work in practise....look at all the great centers in the last 40 years, of course they look a lot better coming into the league because they had 4 years in college to build themselves, Oden only has this one season....Give Oden 4 seasons and he would be coming out of OSU with the polish of a Patrick Ewing and the others.... I just think too many people are basing his ability off this one season. But anyone who watched him knows just how explosive and amazing this guy can be, the way he finishes around the rim and explodes....it's simply scary....The team that picks him in the draft is obviously going to work extremely hard with him to refine his post moves and footwork, which is the only thing really holding back right now....he's coming into the league with 3 less college seasons of experience than the other greats at his position. And he's hyped because everyone in the game see's what he can be.... He's simply too big, too quick and too good of a guy to not be great, the only thing holding him back are injuries.... If Oden is a bust, he will be the biggest bust in the history of the game....because nobody in the last 40 years with his ability has completely failed.
In THIS situation, give me Oden. If Durant was more well rounded (ie- top tier defender and great playmaker), than give me Durant. But without those abilities, it is all Oden. Oden is ana amzing low post defender who will anchor your defense for years, and offensively, with the rate he has imporved at, he will attract a lot of attention and make things twice as easy for the perimeter players. Dominant bigs are easy to build around and win with, hence why they have won so many of the past championships. BUT, if you build a nice team around a swingmen, I fully believe they can do the same. Unfortunately with Durant, since he is not a great playmaker, it will be even harder to build around him.
You know what...I agree. I didn't think of it that way because when you look at all the great swingmen they are good playmakers too....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>In THIS situation, give me Oden. If Durant was more well rounded (ie- top tier defender and great playmaker), than give me Durant. But without those abilities, it is all Oden. Oden is ana amzing low post defender who will anchor your defense for years, and offensively, with the rate he has imporved at, he will attract a lot of attention and make things twice as easy for the perimeter players.</div>Are you saying that First Team Big12 Defense wasn't good enough for you?
I told you guys that this is completely hypothetical. Its baiscally you ahve the number one pick; MJ or Russel. MJ or Wilt. Etc.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The`Dream @ Apr 24 2007, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you saying that First Team Big12 Defense wasn't good enough for you?</div> Kevin Durant got that award because of his insane rebounding numbers....not to mention the unreal status he had this season in the league. Anyone who watched Durant noticed the obvious defensive flaws...being out of position and being lazy/reserved many times. In the NBA his rebounding won't translate and he will be on the perimeter....and considering he played in the post most of the season, it will be a transition in the NBA. He has all the skills to be a top perimeter defender in the NBA...he's only 19, he has a ton of time to improve.--------------------------- I'd also like to note that Greg Oden was not shutting people down in the post this season, it's still a problem for him, sure he can block and rebound, but people are overrating his current ability to shut down his man, but like Durant, only 19, plenty of time.
To me, it mostly depends on who you already have on the roster. If you have Clyde Drexler, go for the big man.
