I guess where I differ here is Collins, if they couldn’t get Kawhi because they didn’t want to let go of Collins I’d be pretty annoyed... Now CJ on the other hand I could understand saying I’m not giving up on him for a guy with all those question marks.
If Jake Layman can consistently hit that open jumper, he could be the hidden piece this team has been looking for. He has all the skills, and a beautiful shot. 3rd year, make or break. I've got a feeling he finally get's it going.
Interesting. I think I'm of the opposite opinion - I'd trade CJ but not Collins. My reasoning is because (1) we're stacked at G and thin at PF, and (2) we need to keep our rookie scale salaries. Those high-reward / low salary guys are absolutely crucial during this quasi-rebuild. Suddenly our "untouchables" have shifted to Dame (always), Simons, and Collins - our future success depends on them.
Fair enough, I’m just so not sold on Collins, he’s coming around for me, and I’m cheering for him just need to see a lot more. My only untouchable is Dame at this point.
Not sold on Collins in either way - good or bad. Havent seen any consistency, which is likely because he's 20. But he's cheap with lots of upside. He's a low risk, high reward asset right now which makes him almost untouchable unless he's part of a superstar in return package. He's the anti Evan Turner.
I'm not sold on him. But, IMO, we're in the position where he HAS to pan out so that we either have a great player or a great trade chip. Ditto Simons. Those are the only players (aside from Nurk) currently on the roster who will determine whether we go up or down. We've seen what everyone else is capable of, for the most part. We're not going to get a team-changing FA anytime before 2020. So everything rides of Collins, Simons, and any future draft picks (and maybe Nurk if he becomes a legit two-way player). You think he has high trade value? I think his current value gets us into talks for a rental player or someone on the downside of their career. I don't think he has value that will bring us back a mid-career, 2nd tier player with multiple years on their contract - and that's what I'd need if I were trading him. I hold Collins with the hope that he can get his value to that point. I see no point in trading him to become marginally better this season - Love doesn't make us good enough to hang with GSW, HOU, and probably not even LAL. I'm not even sure a straight Love/Collins swap makes us better at all. And, not that it's do-able, but the salary situation would be atrocious.
I just don't think his ceiling is all that high, and I'd rather other teams not realize that before his value plummets. I'd use him in a deal for Love if we can also dump ET or Leonard in the process.
Fair enough. Dumping ET would be GREAT. I don't care about Meyers. But I'm not willing to give up even the slightest chance of future gains (Collins) just to dump ET. Perhaps Collins' value never increases...in which case we're screwed. But dumping him now means we're definitely screwed.
Not necessarily. I'm not talking straight salary dump. I'm talking for a guy like Kevin Love, a multiple time all star in his prime.
This is quite the rosy view. I'm not calling you an apologist-- I'm genuinely baffled with how divergent your perspective is to mine. Curious to hear your thoughts on losing Ed (who by multiple accounts was the heart and soul of the team), because you clearly omitted his departure to fit your narrative. Also curious to hear your thoughts on upsetting Dame to the point his supposed frustration with the team even became national news for a few days. Also curious to hear what you think how Neil himself told everyone that he and Dame wanted to bring in vets, and instead selected two 19 year olds. We got younger this summer. Neil was extremely limited this summer-- we all realize this. But he brought it on himself with the moves he made in 2016 as he handcuffed his cap and had none of those so-called assets he brought back two years ago. This is why so many of us are disappointed. When more than 10 teams in the conference improve substantially, and we take a step back, you can understand why Dame and the fanbase get pissed.
I think the biggest improvements OKC, Utah and Minnesota have done was getting healthy. Tho the Butler issue might cancel out that improvement for Minnesota. Roberson (for OKC) will help, but I kind of think people are over-selling Westbrook and George as a combo. If CJ and Dame won't improve/are what they are because they are "already 28 and 27", (as someone on here said), what about Westbrook and George, who are both OLDER? I think the biggest question regarding the Blazers next year, will be how they handle the loss of Ed Davis. And honestly, as much as I valued his contributions, the guy was a dinosaur in todays NBA. Couldn't hit a shot outside of 10 feet (if that).
Our opinions apparently differ on how much Love improves our team. Personally, I see no significant improvement - by that I mean, he might get us a few more regular season wins but nothing more. At best he's the difference between missing the POs and a 2nd round exit. I don't see the point in spending potential assets on that.
This is status quo. This is resignation to the fact that this is the squad Dame has to roll with. Dame is more mature than pretty much any other star and that's why he'll fight like hell to drag this team to the playoffs. In 2003, Vince Carter wanted his team to trade for veterans to take the next step-- instead they drafted a young Chris Bosh. VC then tanked the next season and forced his way out. Dame isn't that kinda guy, and that's why you build around him. Shame that Neil and his lack of foresight into team building will waste away the best thing that ever happened to this franchise.
Bosh was a decent rookie, had a nice 2nd year, and was a dominant player by his 3rd year. Vince Carter would've still been in his prime at that time so if he just allowed the process to pan out he could have played on a possible title contending team by the age of 30.
Are you trying to equate Simons or Trent or even Zach to future hall of famer Chris Bosh? None of our guys have that ceiling.
