OT Mass shooting at video game tournament in Jacksonville leaves multiple dead

It's on topic though..I've tried to steer this back on topic and nabbed that post to use as an example of irony...wasn't personal..it just fit

 

...oh, you're going to hell for that one !

 

Ah, the buggers are prone to jam. I had one. Get a Win 94, more reliable. But I really like the replica of the old 92. Better yet,
the .357 is then very near the 30 30.

 

oh yeah..I would never leave mine.
We used the rack for when we went hunting, but you could drive through towns on the way with no problems. It was very common.

 

Well, to be completely honest, my old .38 is my favorite. The rounds for it will work in the rifle also, but I never loaded up this round to maximum capacity for use in the rifle. The 18" barrel would make a huge difference but I only did it with the .357 rounds.

 

...Win 98 ?...hmm, I'll check into it. I've used my brother in law's Marlin a couple of times and was surprised how accurate it was and the 30-30 is a good bit shorter than my other rifles and when shouldered, makes it much easier to get in and out of the deer stand.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/us/jacksonville-madden-shooter-katz-mental-health-invs/index.html

"David Katz, the shooter who killed two people and wounded 10 others before taking his own life at an e-sports tournament in Jacksonville, Florida, on Sunday, was in treatment for psychiatric issues at least as early as the age of 12, according to family divorce records.

Katz, who was 24, was prescribed a number of psychiatric medications, including an antipsychotic, and saw "a succession of psychiatrists," according to a 2006 letter from the father's attorney. A separate 2006 court filing states that a therapist said David had experienced a "psychiatric crisis."
CNN also obtained police records that show 26 calls for service to the police from the Katz family home in Columbia, Maryland, from 1993 to 2009, for issues ranging from "mental illness" to domestic disputes. At least two of those calls involved Katz arguing with his mother, though none of the reports provided to CNN show any physical violence. The Howard County Police Department declined to release the reports from a number of the incidents, citing statutory restrictions.
Since Sunday's shooting, the family has told investigators that David Katz suffered from mental health issues, according to a law enforcement source who described the family as being very cooperative with investigators. Both parents have worked for the federal government. Richard Katz is a NASA engineer employed at the Goddard Space Flight Center outside Washington, DC, according to an agency spokesperson. Elizabeth Katz was listed as an employee of the Food and Drug Administration at the time of her divorce.

Court documents state that Katz suffered emotionally as a child and was prescribed psychiatric drugs, including Lexapro, an antidepressant, and Risperidone, an antipsychotic medication sometimes used to treat schizophrenia. Katz's mother took him to see a number of psychiatrists as well as a social worker and art therapist, according to a 2006 letter from the father's attorney.
His father disputed the necessity of the drugs and a psychiatric evaluation sought by David's mother, suggesting that his son instead "attend a support group for middle school students." "Richard Katz has seen no evidence whatsoever of schizophrenia in David Katz," a motion from his father's lawyer said.
On one occasion, according to a document from the father's lawyer, Katz strongly reacted to the notion of going to an appointment and locked himself in the car. The boy was then "faced with the prospect of being put in handcuffs by the police."
The day after his 13th birthday, police were called to the mother's Columbia home to help with her son, because of "the volume of the television and his overall lack of respect toward her and his grandmother," according to a police report. The day after his 14th birthday, according to another police report, Katz called police to the home because his mother "keeps punishing him by taking away his video games."
Katz attacked fellow competitors at a Madden NFL video game tournament at the downtown shopping complex Jacksonville Landing after losing a game earlier in the day, according to survivor Alexander Madunic. He killed himself with his own handgun, according to Sheriff Mike Williams."

Now there are two sides of this. First off, he bought two guns legally in maryland even with his background. Not sure if they did any checks or what but obviously this was poorly handled and should not be this easy for a guy like this to get his hands on a gun. At the same time, he has a very clear history of issues with mental illness and those anti depressants don't really help people either. Also obvious he had a childhood filled with domestic violence and what not, more often than not that leads to a kid growing up with severe anger issues and other issues in general. So yeah, I would say for one we need stricter background checks, and people who know nothing about metal illness should probably do their research because there is A LOT of it in this country and most people dismiss it by calling these people crazy when in fact they have an issue that needs treated. This country can not keep prescribing people anti depressants and that's it. Even if he didn't have a gun, there are other tools he could of used to harm somebody whenever. None of it is okay but I also hate how these days any shooting gets political. It shouldn't.

 

You would like the 94 win 30 30. The model 92 Winchester was even a tad smaller but still with the 18" barrel. It was chambered for the 25 20, 32 20, and 44 40. All black power rounds. Sweet little guns but just a little light in velocity. Browning back in the 80s made the B92 as a knock off of the Win 92. Built in Japan, they did a nice job of creating the replica. They chambered them for the .357 and the 44mag rounds to replace the black powder rounds of 32 20 and 44 40. I had both and sold the 44mag, that rifle was not set up very well for accuracy. The hammer interferes with the sights for that round. The .357 is just right, quick and accurate. Loaded with the ammunition you can create, a light weight replacement for the 30 30 with 11 round in the tubular magazine. 13 rounds loaded with .38 specials but that would cut your effective range in half. A pretty damn effective defense weapon if they ever take away some better options.

 

finally a post that's on track...and I agree with your take completely Cippy...we were discussing it before gun preferences became the topic here..for this I thank you.

 

Y'all should start a hunting thread of it's own....would probably get a lot of traffic...don't see it as a mass shooting topic though

 

Ah! You're just a grouchy old killjoy.

 

At least the word "kill" is on topic....and a gun/hunting thread would probably beat out the Melo to Portland thread for pages and participation...I like my news to be in sections when I read the paper.

 

You don't even see the irony do you?

 

And it seems no law was needed.

 

Still can. Still do.

 

School shootings? FAKE NEWS SAY NPR INVESTIGATION!

Education
The School Shootings That Weren't

• 
  August 27, 20189:26 PM ET
  Heard on Morning Edition
  
  Anya Kamenetz
  Alexis Arnold
  Emily Cardinali
  
  LA Johnson/NPR
  How many times per year does a gun go off in an American school?
  
  We should know. But we don't.
  
  This spring the U.S. Education Department reported that in the 2015-2016 school year, "nearly 240 schools ... reported at least 1 incident involving a school-related shooting." The number is far higher than most other estimates.
  
  But NPR reached out to every one of those schools repeatedly over the course of three months and found that more than two-thirds of these reported incidents never happened. Child Trends, a nonpartisan nonprofit research organization, assisted NPR in analyzing data from the government's Civil Rights Data Collection.
  
  We were able to confirm just 11 reported incidents, either directly with schools or through media reports.
  
  In 161 cases, schools or districts attested that no incident took place or couldn't confirm one. In at least four cases, we found, something did happen, but it didn't meet the government's parameters for a shooting. About a quarter of schools didn't respond to our inquiries.
  
  "When we're talking about such an important and rare event, [this] amount of data error could be very meaningful," says Deborah Temkin, a researcher and program director at Child Trends.
  
  
  The Education Department, asked for comment on our reporting, noted that it relies on school districts to provide accurate information in the survey responses and says it will update some of these data later this fall. But, officials added, the department has no plans to republish the existing publication.
  
  This confusion comes at a time when the need for clear data on school violence has never been more pressing. Students around the country are heading back to school this month under a cloud of fear stemming from the most recent mass shootings in Parkland, Fla., and Santa Fe, Texas.
  
  At least 53 new school safety laws were passed in states in 2018. Districts are spending millions of dollars to "harden" schools with new security measures and equipment. A blue-ribbon federal school safety commission led by Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is holding public events around the country, including one in Alabama Tuesday. Children are spending class time on active-shooter drills and their parents are buying bulletproof backpacks.
  
  Our reporting highlights just how difficult it can be to track school-related shootings and how researchers, educators and policymakers are hindered by a lack of data on gun violence.
  
  "I think someone pushed the wrong button"
  
  The Civil Rights Data Collection for 2018 required every public school — more than 96,000 — to answer questions on a wide range of issues.
  
  It asked what sounded like a simple question:
  
  In the 2015-2016 school year, "Has there been at least one incident at your school that involved a shooting (regardless of whether anyone was hurt)?"
  
  The answer — "nearly 240 schools (0.2 percent of all schools)" — was published this spring.
  
  The government's definition included any discharge of a weapon at school-sponsored events or on school buses. Even so, that would be a rate of shootings, and a level of violence, much higher than anyone else had ever found.
  
  For comparison, the Everytown for Gun Safety database, citing media reports, listed just 29 shootings at K-12 schools between mid-August 2015 and June 2016. There is little overlap between this list and the government's, with only seven schools appearing on both.
  
  
  A separate investigation by the ACLU of Southern California also was able to confirm fewer than a dozen of the incidents in the government's report, while 59 percent were confirmed errors.
  
  The Civil Rights Data Collection dates to 1968. The Education Department's Office for Civil Rights administers the survey every two years. Every public school is required by law to complete it. These findings often drive public conversations.
  
  For example, the CRDC was the source of recent reports that black students were suspended from school at rates much higher than whites — information that inspired changes in discipline policy across the country.
  
  The survey has dozens of items, ranging from how many middle schoolers passed algebra I to how many students with disabilities were restrained or secluded. It can be completed by filling out an online form or uploading data.
  
  One item, about "Firearm Use," was required for the first time for all schools in the most recent data collection.
  
  Most of the school leaders NPR reached had little idea of how shootings got recorded for their schools.
  
  For example, the CRDC reports 26 shootings within the Ventura Unified School District in Southern California.
  
  "I think someone pushed the wrong button," said Jeff Davis, an assistant superintendent there. The outgoing superintendent, Joe Richards, "has been here for almost 30 years and he doesn't remember any shooting," Davis added. "We are in this weird vortex of what's on this screen and what reality is."
  
  "We got wind of it and nipped it in the bud"
  
  In other cases, something may have happened, but not the firearm discharge the survey asked about.
  
  The biggest discrepancy in sheer numbers was the 37 incidents listed in the CRDC for the Cleveland Metropolitan School District. Roseann Canfora, the district's chief communications officer, told us that, in fact, 37 schools reported "possession of a knife or a firearm," which is the previous question on the form.
  
  The number 37, then, was apparently entered on the wrong line.
  
  Similarly, the CRDC lists four shootings among the 16 schools of the Santa Monica-Malibu Unified School District in California. Gail Pinsker, spokeswoman for the district, says that "going back 20-plus years," no one can remember any incident involving a firearm. Their best guess, she says, is that there was some kind of mistake in coding, where an incident involving something like a pair of scissors (California Education Code 48915[c][2]), for example, got inflated into one involving a firearm (48915[c][1]).
  
  Ray Poole, the chief of legal services for the Nassau County School District in Florida, told us that at one school where a shooting was reported, Callahan Middle School, on Nov. 21, 2015, a Saturday, a student took a picture of himself at home holding a gun and posted it to social media. "We got wind of it and nipped it in the bud." No shooting.
  
  The CRDC shows seven shootings in DeKalb County, Ga. Police reports provided to us by that district give a sense of more of the many, many ways the data collection may have gone wrong.
  
  At Redan Middle School, there is a report of a toy cap gun fired on a school bus — not a shooting.
  
  The CRDC shows a shooting at Stone Mountain Middle School, but a police report shows an incident at Stone Mountain High School instead.
  
  And district officials provided a police report showing that there was a shooting after a McNair High School football game — in August 2016, after the time period covered in the survey.
  
  Unacceptable burden
  
  The Education Department's Office for Civil Rights received complaints about the wording and administration of this survey even before it went out.
  
  A June 2014 research report commissioned to improve the CRDC as a whole noted that in previous data collections, districts had experienced "unacceptable levels of reporting burden." They complained that the CRDC asks them to report information that is similar to what states already collect, but in a different format, or at a level of specificity that they don't currently track.
  
  Also at issue, the internal report says, was a "lack of clarity in the definitions of key terms." When it came to "Offenses," the group of questions including firearm use, districts "indicated dissatisfaction with the categories provided, specifically that the CRDC categories did not align with the categories used in state reporting, other federal reporting, and/or their own district databases."
  
  As an example of this lack of alignment, the federal Gun-Free Schools Act requires schools in states that receive federal funds to expel students who bring a gun to school and requires districts in those states to report the circumstances of such expulsions to the state — regardless of whether a gun goes off.
  
  The state of Florida asks schools to report "weapons possession," excluding pocketknives. California asks schools to report suspensions and expulsions resulting from "possession, sale, furnishing of a firearm" or "imitation firearm."
  
  And so on.
  
  There's also potential for confusion within the CRDC itself. While this particular item refers clearly to "a shooting," the previous item asks about a long list of incidents, some involving "a firearm or explosive device" and others involving "a weapon."
  
  Temkin at Child Trends, who has long studied bullying and school climate, says this wording "could cause confusion."
  
  "Best practices in data collection are not to include double-barreled items," she says, such as asking about a "firearm or explosive device" in the same question. An explosive device could be something like a pipe bomb or even a firecracker.
  
  NPR submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to learn more about problems with the data collection, and we received emails that schools and districts sent as they grappled with this kind of confusion. For example, the Omro school district in Wisconsin wanted to know whether a consensual paintball-gun fight involving several students should be considered an "attack with a weapon" or a "possession of a firearm."
  
  Another reason the shooting data may show these kinds of problems, Temkin adds, is that the item is so new. "Because this was the first year this was asked of all schools, they may not have been as prepared to respond to this item."
  
  And there's another factor at work as well: the law of really, really big numbers. Temkin notes that "240 schools is less than half of 1 percent," of the schools in the survey. "It's in the margin of error."
  
  Liz Hill, an Education Department spokeswoman, told NPR that "at least five districts have submitted requests to OCR to amend the school-related shootings data that they submitted for the 2015-16 CRDC." The plan is to issue what is called "errata" to update the data, but the original document will not be republished, Hill said.
  
  Hill made the point that any "misreporting" is the schools' responsibility, not the department's: "As always, data reported by recipients is self-reported and self-certified."
  
  After we contacted the Santa Monica-Malibu Unified district about the four reported shootings, the district emailed the Office for Civil Rights to try to correct the information. No shootings happened, officials said.
  
  The Office for Civil Rights responded on July 25:
  
  "The CRDC accepts correction requests for up to one year from the moment the submission period opens. For the 2015-16 collection, the corrections period closed on June 30, 2018, and for this reason your data correction request cannot be accepted. However, a data note will be included on the data file to ensure users are aware of the errors you are reporting."
  
  NPR's Clare Lombardo contributed research for this piece.
  

 

Exactly.

 

Not my blood pressure, and why make the big mouth comment? When did conversation become the anomaly in this forum?

 

...try practicing what you preach.

 

I guess our definitions are different. Another great forum addition