Politics TAKING DOWN THE DEEP STATE

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by MARIS61, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Oh that darn Hillary. She must have a shit pile of indictments in the work. Don't tell me, let me guess. Any day now?
     
  2. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    That would be good.
     
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  3. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Its funny to me that most extreme leftist are very critical of police and they are crooks and on the take, but they would never think in a million years that the FBI or DOJ could be corrupt?
    No one is infallible, not Presidents, FBI, DOJ, Congress.
    We must have a system that will keep people in power in check. Term Limits would help.
     
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  4. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    I've been a big believer in the FBI and the Justice Department since I was a wee sprout. Still am. To me, the only blemish was J. Edgar Hoover's treatment of The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. However, I loved how they took down organized crime and especially the KKK. The took guts and meticulous planning.
     
  5. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Im a believer in them as well, same with ICE. Just need to keep bad apples out!
     
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  6. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    There's bad apples everywhere. I'm all for finding them out and culling them out.
     
  7. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I do also. We have it for the President, need it for Congress now. However, there is no way in hell that we get Congress to vote to curb their power by imposing term limits upon themselves. A big reason I support a Convention of the States to begin some of these needed Constitutional amendments. Term limits would improve the hell out of our Government.
     
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  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    On the contrary, the country would be much better off if we'd repealed the 22nd amendment a couple years ago.

    barfo
     
  9. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    The way to clean up Congress would be pay them like school teachers ...watch how fast they scramble back to the private sector.
     
  10. DaLincolnJones

    DaLincolnJones Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, we think the President has all the power, but realistically what ever he does for four or eight years, for the most part , can be undone. The real power are the career politicians with their pockets being lined by lobbyists. Guys that spend decades using the system.
     
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  11. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The FBI says this is complete bullshit. But who you going to believe, the FBI, or half-wit Louie Gohmert?

    [​IMG]

    barfo
     
  12. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    bingo....term limits in congress would hurt the power of lobbyist in a big way.
     
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  13. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    It would actually enhance the power of lobbyists, because the lobbyists, who would not be term limited, would know the system much better than the congresspeople.

    barfo
     
  14. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    The concept of the FBI is flawed in several ways. The idea that the FBI Director in not directly accountable to the only elected
    executive in our government is flawed. The idea that he can not be fired without accusing the President of Obstruction of Justice is very flawed.

    The idea that Lying to the FBI is a crime no matter how convoluted is not in step with the 5th amendment where a person can not be compelled to incriminate themselves.

    The idea that they can investigate citizens including government officials with or worse yet, without evidence is flawed. This process is totally lacking in a due process procedure that protects the citizen from harassment by a powerful government agency. They really are not required to show results for their actions. Not discussing ongoing investigations or justifying them to any level of over site accountable to the people is illogical and inconsistent with the concept of Due Process.

    They can indeed harm a citizen that has committed no crime, with impunity. We have given similar power out before, to the Railroad Police. The FBI was created in part from this pattern. The Railway Police can harm a citizen following no due process, and the Citizen will find no recourse available. Same with the FBI.
     
  15. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I agree but do understand what you are saying. I would hope that constant turnover in congress would lead to less long term obligations to lobbyist.
    The new rule that an exiting elected Congress person would have to wait 5 years to become a lobbyist hopefully help?
    An elective official should be the servant of the people not where the money is..just my opinion.
     
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  16. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Sound good, but I rather doubt many go for the salary now. See Duncan Hunter. I fear the lobbyist can find a way to sweeten the pot. I think we need citizen going to Congress from a sense of duty, not for a lucrative career.

    Perhaps we pay them like teachers and limit their term of duty.
     
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  17. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    The only way to get lobbyists out of virtual control of Congress is to limit campaign expenditure. This is best exemplified by the corrupt lobbying by Jack Abramoff and his hangers-on.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff
     
  18. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    How do you get evidence without investigating?
     
  19. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Why? Do you want everyone in government to report directly to the President?

    I think you are letting your feelings get in the way of rationality here. FBI directors have been fired w/o an accusation of obstruction.

    So are you against having perjury as a crime generally? This is a hilariously Trumpian position, that lying is fine and to be expected, and hell, really what any honorable man would do.

    Nobody lost their 5th amendment rights. They just didn't exercise them.

    No, sorry but due process does not require discussing the investigation with the target prior to charges being brought. That's not the way any of this works. When and if he's charged with a crime, he gets to defend himself in a court of law. Not before.

    Yes, let's just get rid of law enforcement to protect Trump from any possible charges, because that's the most important thing.

    barfo
     
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  20. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    whatever it takes. There has to be a way of checks and balances.
     

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