Politics TRUMP SAYS HE PLANS TO SIGN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO TERMINATE BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP

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  1. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Yeah let's let the bullshit begin.... They're so good at their jobs... We need to start impeaching some of them...
     
    dviss1, Oct 31, 2018
    #121
  2. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I'm confused by this post. All I was saying was that when someone says, "This is how SCOTUS sees the amendment", that seems like an incomplete statement because I don't think they've ever weighed in on it (past court or present).

    Whether or not some of the 9 current justices are competent or worthy sounds like a completely different question.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Oct 31, 2018
    #122
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  3. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    e_blazer, Oct 31, 2018
    #123
  4. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    bodyman5000 and 1, Oct 31, 2018
    #124
  5. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    This is an interesting argument, and the crux on the matter is that they are under "complete jurisdiction" if we look at jurisdiction as "the official power to make legal decisions and judgments". Of course, if we argue that the US does not have jurisdiction over these people - it has no right to kick them out either since it does not have jurisdiction.

    It is a catch-22. You can't have one without the other...

    (*) I am not a legal expert in any kind of way, but if we are using mathematical logic - this argument does not hold water as shown.
     
    andalusian, Oct 31, 2018
    #125
  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    This really boils down to - if Trump does it by EO, it goes to the supreme court, and the supreme court can do whatever it wants, so it might well support Trump, given the partisan nature of the court.

    The court is always free to interpret the constitution however it wants, even if it overturns precedent, years of practice, and/or original intent.

    It's a bit of a stretch, though, to think that nobody ever really considered what the 14th amendment meant before, until the great legal scholar Donald Trump came along and revealed the true meaning.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Oct 31, 2018
    #126
  7. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I think that's where Westphalian "sovereignty" comes in. They may not be able to have "legal power and judgements" (to use your look at the definition), but they absolutely have the sovereign right to not let people in who they don't want. Even the UN Declaration of Human Rights says so in Article 13:
    Nowhere does it state (for it likely would never be adopted) that anyone has an unfettered right to cross into a country other than his/her own. As the concepts of "citizenship" vary from country to country, and therefore aren't an international norm (or law), it seems that the logical conclusion would be that the US government has every right (if it chooses to--as stated, probably a constitutional amendment) to restrict both immigration and citizenship.
     
    BrianFromWA, Oct 31, 2018
    #127
  8. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    You really want to interpret the constitution based on UN resolutions? Because I am certain this will open a floodgate of all kinds of interesting things. I would love to hear Mr. Trumps response to this - I suspect it will be very entertaining.

    Again, if we are going strictly by the language of the constitution's amendment, the standard dictionary definition of jurisdiction and mathematical logic - there is a clear catch-22 there.
     
    andalusian, Oct 31, 2018
    #128
  9. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    No. Only Chapter VII cases are binding. I was merely stating that even the UN does not take the position of what you're talking about. This isn't a Chapter VII UN case, and therefore isn't binding.
    No, I'm saying that your position that because we don't have jurisdiction and therefore can't kick them out has zero basis in law, national or international, or normative frameworks--whether or not it seems mathematically logical. In fact, both say the opposite. That's all. :dunno:
     
    BrianFromWA, Oct 31, 2018
    #129
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  10. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    There are many laws and regulations that the Supreme Court has never ruled on and many times it's because it wouldn't change anything and be a waste of time. Trump has had many of his self imposed policies ruled unconstitutional already and thrown out. there are procedures in place because of a president like Trump who thinks he is above the law and the constitution.
     
    CupWizier, Oct 31, 2018
    #130
  11. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    Except for Trump admitting that people told him he could do this.....
     
    bodyman5000 and 1, Oct 31, 2018
    #131
  12. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Are you taking something Trump said as the truth???

    barfo
     
    barfo, Oct 31, 2018
    #132
  13. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    Absolutely.
     
    bodyman5000 and 1, Oct 31, 2018
    #133
  14. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Would you be interested, then, in an investment opportunity? It involves a bridge, and a Nigerian Prince. Ground-floor opportunity.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Oct 31, 2018
    #134
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  15. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Jussayin the SCOTUS is a joke. That is all.
     
    dviss1, Oct 31, 2018
    #135
  16. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Apparently they did with Barack Obama.
     
    Lanny, Oct 31, 2018
    #136
  17. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Hmm...not quite the same thing, but good effort, dad.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Oct 31, 2018
    #137
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  18. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I think the fact that Russians (and Chinese) have been singled out as some of the worst violators of these, partially because they can afford a fancy vacation to Trump Tower in Miami, (and Trump himself saying since his campaign that he wants to get rid of it), would blow up this argument. I wonder why you feel no one is bringing that up...we know why. :cheers:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/birth-tourism-brings-russian-baby-boom-miami-n836121
     
    BrianFromWA, Oct 31, 2018
    #138
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  19. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    The courts ruled that the cases filed saying that Obama was not a citizen because he wasn't born here, were not worthy of being heard. I think this settles that issue.
     
    Lanny, Oct 31, 2018
    #139
  20. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Because there was documentation that he was, in fact, born here. Not the same issue at all.
     
    e_blazer, Oct 31, 2018
    #140
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