<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WELCOMEtotheJUNGLE @ May 18 2007, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Agreed Justice, Yao is clearly the best center in the league right now</div>Well, I didn't exactly give an argument for Yao... But yeah, I think he is. Saying that he is not dominant offensively is pretty meaningless. He is just about as good offensively, if not better than all the others. I would love to see Stoudemire only having McGrady as an offensive help rather than having also Nash, Bell, Barbosa, Diaw, et al. I doubt he would be as dominant either. Shaq (he actually has lots of help on his team, but they still got swept... he didn't "carry" them by any means) was fairly innocuous in the playoffs, as was Howard (who has far less offensive help). I'm not even sure who is the third option in Houston... Alston, I guess? Hah.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ May 18 2007, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not even sure who is the third option in Houston... Alston, I guess? Hah.</div>Yeah, they really don't have a set 3rd option, but Shane Battier is clearly their 3rd best player. I don't like Alston at all, he's a terrible decision maker and he's one of the streakiest shooters in the NBA.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 18 2007, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, they really don't have a set 3rd option, but Shane Battier is clearly their 3rd best player.</div>I agree, but I don't know if he is the 3rd best offensively. Doesn't matter, the point is that there isn't much offensively in Houston.
1) Amare Stoudemire - Still in the playoffs2) Yao Ming - Playoff performance drops him3) Marcus Camby - The Nuggets wouldn't have made the playoffs without him4) Dwight Howard - Too many turnovers to be ranked higher5) Memo Okur - Amazingly clutch and a great shooter, but the defense?6) Emeka Okafor - Tough...for a 30 win team7)Tyson Chandler - Much improved, may break top 5 next season8) Ben Wallace - Not as good as he used to be, but the driving force behind the Bulls9) Shaquille O'neal - WTF did he do this year?10) Eddy Curry - Slow, fat, out of shape...a waste of time, but talented offensively
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ May 18 2007, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name one center that carried their team.</div>Shaquille Oneal this year. You saw him carry the heat into the playoffs without Wade. If thats not carrying, I dont know what is. Dwight Howard, also carried his team into that final playoff spot. And you guys act if a center has never led an NBA team in the history of the game. How abotu guys like Jabbar, Chamberlain? You act as if a center never has lead his team ever.EDIT: Also, Shaq doesn't have help..at least not this year. He only had Eddie Jones who exploded for their playoff run. He had a mediocre point guard in J.Williams, mediocre PF in Posey, not exactly major scoring options in Wright, Walker eihtier.Same with Howard. He had Turkogolu and Nelson who exploded at the beginning of the year but faded in their playoff run. The only person Id say is Grant, who isnt a superstar eithier.EDIT AGAIN: Also, your arguement for Yao makes no sense. I dont care if he has a third option. His team is pretty stacked. Defensive wall in Battier, a TOP 10 player in the NBA Tracy Mcragdy, and a solid option in Juan Howard, who played well in the playoffs. Yao has help, but still has never won a playoff series.
Yao doesn't strike me as the type of players teams are REALLY scared of. If STAT blows up he blows up big and can be near impossible to stop.Okafor will be the one to jump next year. He just needs a good solid season, at least 75 games.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ May 18 2007, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name one center that carried their team.</div>Shaq carried his team when Wade went out with the injuries. I dont think Shaq is the best Center in the league anymore but he did step up when his team needed him most. Anyway, my list:1. Yao Ming2. Amare Stoudemire3. Shaquille O'Neal4. Dwight Howard5. Marcus Camby6. Ben Wallace7. Emeka Okafor8. Mehmet Okur 9. Eddy Curry10. Tyson ChandlerIf Duncan counts, put him at 1 and move everone down one.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ May 18 2007, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would love to see Stoudemire only having McGrady as an offensive help rather than having also Nash, Bell, Barbosa, Diaw, et al. I doubt he would be as dominant either.</div>Granted this was a few years back when he had 2-3 more inches on his vertical jump, but Amare was putting in 24PPG after Marbury was traded in 03-04. He put up 30PPG without Nash this year. He may not be as effective in another system with different players around him, but he is very versatile as an offensive big man (amazingly athletic, can run the floor, can take any other big man off dribble, very reliable midrange jumper, etc..). He is now a good rebounder, decent defender, and this season played all 82 games and was pretty reliable and consistent throughout.I am a HUGE Rockets fan as you probably know, and through national telecast and streams online, I see Yao Ming a LOT. He is easily the most dominant scoring big man in the league, and without T-Mac he could probably easily average at or near 30PPG. But Yao's problem is that's all he really does. He is not a great rebounder, he is unbelievably limited as a defender (as you saw with Utah), he is a bad passer, turns the ball over a LOT, and he can't play for more than 9 straight minutes without being ready to collapse. I still take Yao slightly over Amare, but it is not like Yao is head and shoulders above every other big man in the league (no pun intended).
I still wouldn't consider Amare Stoudamire a center, he's a power forward playing center.#1, still has to be Shaq, he's the only dude who still actually plays the traditional "center" position.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ May 18 2007, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1) Amare Stoudemire - Still in the playoffs2) Yao Ming - Playoff performance drops him3) Marcus Camby - The Nuggets wouldn't have made the playoffs without him4) Dwight Howard - Too many turnovers to be ranked higher5) Memo Okur - Amazingly clutch and a great shooter, but the defense?6) Emeka Okafor - Tough...for a 30 win team7)Tyson Chandler - Much improved, may break top 5 next season8) Ben Wallace - Not as good as he used to be, but the driving force behind the Bulls9) Shaquille O'neal - WTF did he do this year?10) Eddy Curry - Slow, fat, out of shape...a waste of time, but talented offensively</div>Tyson Chandler over Shaquille O'Neal? You're a joke.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ May 18 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tyson Chandler over Shaquille O'Neal? You're a joke.</div>he did ALOT more than Shaq this season. Shaq didn't do sh*t.
lol Tyson Chandler didn't do sh*t either..he got all his NINE PPG off of put backs and dunkshe has potential but he doesn't have any offensive game period..just an incredible rebounder
Tim Duncan is the best center(period) He plays both positions can handle post-up and block(.)Amare should not be 1st(.) As a run n gun center Yeah you could say he is number 1(.) A run n gun center like him requires a good passing pg(.) Yao Shaq and Duncan command down low at whatever pace they feel is necessary(.) They dont have to drive or cut nearly every single possession to score(.) I 'm not hatin on Amare, I know how good he his, but he should not be first(.) I'm done.....complain away(.)
1. Tim Duncan- majority of what the guy plays, might as well be the center2. Shaq Oneal- doesn't matter what numbers he put up, his presence says it all3. Marcus Camby- didnt win defensive player of the year for nothing4. Amare Stoudemire- still think people rate him to highly5. Dwight Howard- much improved and only getting better6. Tyson Chandler- Also improving, he gets some offense then he moves up7. Ben Wallace- dissapointed in him this year, he lost is not as agressive as he once was8. Yao Ming- pathetic, pathetic, pathetic, he makes my list because of height9. Mehmet Okur- good shooter, but defense is sad10. Emeka Okafor- surely because of defense onlyI would also like to give an honorable mention to Mikki Moore, although he didnt have 20 and 10 numbers, he filled in for the new jersey nets greatly in the absence of Nenad, I wouldnt mind seeing him in the starting rotation next year, better than Jason Collins, 2 pts, 2 rbs, 2 to, 4 fls
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ May 18 2007, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shaquille Oneal this year. You saw him carry the heat into the playoffs without Wade. If thats not carrying, I dont know what is. Dwight Howard, also carried his team into that final playoff spot. And you guys act if a center has never led an NBA team in the history of the game. How abotu guys like Jabbar, Chamberlain? You act as if a center never has lead his team ever.EDIT: Also, Shaq doesn't have help..at least not this year. He only had Eddie Jones who exploded for their playoff run. He had a mediocre point guard in J.Williams, mediocre PF in Posey, not exactly major scoring options in Wright, Walker eihtier.Same with Howard. He had Turkogolu and Nelson who exploded at the beginning of the year but faded in their playoff run. The only person Id say is Grant, who isnt a superstar eithier.EDIT AGAIN: Also, your arguement for Yao makes no sense. I dont care if he has a third option. His team is pretty stacked. Defensive wall in Battier, a TOP 10 player in the NBA Tracy Mcragdy, and a solid option in Juan Howard, who played well in the playoffs. Yao has help, but still has never won a playoff series.</div>Shaq had a ton more help than Yao. He was solid to bring the team into the playoffs, but the East is not very strong. Your argument (that's the correct spelling, you know) is the one that actually makes no sense. He has Wade, who is not a top 10 player when injured, but he also has Walker, Kapono (you apparently forgot him), Mourning is solid off the bench behind him, and so on. You cannot seriously tell me those guys are not all at least comparable to Alston, who seems to be the third option in Houston. Yao and McGrady at least took a pretty damn good Utah team to 7 games, whereas the Heat got SWEPT against Chicago. Utah > Chicago, I remind you. Shaq didn't carry his team against a good but not great team in Chicago. He couldn't even take them to five games. It is pretty hard to win a championship (or a series, for that matter) with two great players and nothing else. The Rockets aren't stacked by any means. They have two great players, a solid player, and a bunch of guys that would be on the bench on any championship team (Juwan is awful, I can't believe you brought him up in a serious manner).We are not talking about comparing careers. Yes, if we talk about years past, then Shaq is clearly the most dominant center career-wise. But no, we aren't talking about careers. We are talking about current playing abilities.I never ever said that no center has ever carried his team. This is clearly a topic about the CURRENT top 10 centers. I was asking you to name a CURRENT center that carries their team. That was obvious for anyone who isn't autistic, but I suppose I am expecting too much out of you.Now, judging from your original post, you think three players "carry" their teams. I have basically addressed Amare and Shaq. They have better all around teams. Now Dwight, he is a great player and he does play on a crappy team. However, your argument against Yao is that he has never won a series... wait, did Dwight win one? Oh yeah, and Dwight sure did carry his team... to the elusive East 8 seed . Listen, if you want to argue that Dwight is better than Yao, you're allowed to, but don't contradict yourself by saying that you have to win a series to be the best center. Don't be a pissant.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ May 18 2007, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Granted this was a few years back when he had 2-3 more inches on his vertical jump, but Amare was putting in 24PPG after Marbury was traded in 03-04. He put up 30PPG without Nash this year. He may not be as effective in another system with different players around him, but he is very versatile as an offensive big man (amazingly athletic, can run the floor, can take any other big man off dribble, very reliable midrange jumper, etc..). He is now a good rebounder, decent defender, and this season played all 82 games and was pretty reliable and consistent throughout.[...]I still take Yao slightly over Amare, but it is not like Yao is head and shoulders above every other big man in the league (no pun intended).</div>Nah, I wasn't trying to say that Amare could only be effective with Nash. I was saying that he has better help than Yao, and anyone that says he "carries" the Suns has got to be kinda retarded. He is a damn good player, but he doesn't carry the team.I agree with you on the last sentence. The thing that was bothering me about what RF1 said was that he was basically claiming that there are a bunch of centers that carry their team, when there really aren't any (the only one I could possibly understand making that argument for is Dwight Howard). That doesn't happen anymore because the amount of talent in the league is so high.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakers4Life24/7 @ May 17 2007, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How can you put Yao at number 1? The guys 7'8 and he can barley dunk the damn basketball. He's weak in the paint, and he's all talk.</div> He's 7'6" and he averages 25/10 and is very effective in the post. Your point above is something a naive poster would have made a couple years ago, doesn't work now.
1. Amare Stoudemire2. Yao Ming3. Shaq O'neal4. Dwight Howard5. Marcus Camby6. Mehmet Okur7. Ben Wallace8. Tyson Chandler9. Eddie Curry10. Brad Miller
I wouldn't put Amare at the one spot yet. Offensively he's close to Ming, but defensively Yao has more presense which gives him the edge...also, there's a big argument out there that without Nash, Amare is much less effective on offense....(I don't watch enough Suns games to know that for sure).
Amare was doing great in his 2nd year without a real point guard part of the time and this year he put better numbers, carrying the team for the few games Nash was out. But yes, Nash helps him get easier looks and I have him at #3 behind Duncan and Yao. He's not as good of an all-around player yet as those guys and needs to mature a bit. If his knee problems don't pop up again soon he could be #1 eventually.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ May 19 2007, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't put Amare at the one spot yet. Offensively he's close to Ming, but defensively Yao has more presense which gives him the edge...also, there's a big argument out there that without Nash, Amare is much less effective on offense....(I don't watch enough Suns games to know that for sure).</div>I think Amare is less effective without Nash, but it's not an overwhelming difference. Amare is still hands down one of the best bigs in the NBA, he's the most athletic/explosive, and even if Brian Scalabrine ran the Suns offense he'd be a force.
