For Collins to develop, Meyers must sit.

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Scalma, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    For Collins to develop...he must play for a coach who can effectively develop big men.
     
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  2. Reep

    Reep Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, like Nurkic needed.

    Don't get me wrong I would love to see a big man coach, but with the evolving roles in the NBA, I'm not sure someone who played 15-20 years ago and happens to be tall would help any more than what we have. Now if we could get Laimbeer I would be all in.
     
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  3. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    I don't care whether they're an ex-player or physically big. But someone who actually understands that PFs are not SGs would be a step in the right direction...even if they're a 5' 400lb neckbeard.
     
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  4. Reep

    Reep Well-Known Member

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    HCP would NOT make a good Big Man Coach.
     
  5. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    The HCP is the Raymond Felton of the forum. Short, round with a limited skillset.
     
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  6. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    help me if I'm remembering things wrong, but didn't Portland used to have a pretty good big man coach as an assistant? Hughes?

    IIRC, he got fired for telling the truth about Aldridge going to leave Portland and that wasn't allowed with all of the bogus PR bullshit Olshey was pumping out at the time

    am I off base here?
     
  7. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    SPot on.
     
  8. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Two things to that:

    1) Hughes is basically only thought of as a good big man coach because of the year Meyers had before he got fired. Meyers is putting up similar shooting numbers this season so maybe people are overstating the impact Hughes had on Meyers development.

    2) In almost any form of business if an employee divulges sensitive company material they are usually fired. You can spin it any way you want but Hughes shouldn't have been yapping about it before free agency started.

    Now, I'm not trying to say that the Blazers shouldn't invest in a big man coach because they probably should.
     
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  9. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    FTFY.
     
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  10. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    I always thought he was Zach Randolph.

     
  11. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    that's undoubtedly true generically, but in this case, I think there's some important context to consider (I started googling about that context to be sure)

    to start with, Hughes made those comments at least 3 days after Olshey traded Batum to Charlotte. I think that trade was an obvious sign that Aldridge would be leaving and the team was headed for a rebuild. So basically, Hughes let out a secret that was no longer a secret. Now, it did go against the grain of Olshey's good-ship-lollypop PR malarkey that he was trying to sell fans. At that point, any fan that believed what was being peddled would believe anything

    so yeah, sure....Hughes didn't toe the company line but essentially, the company line was bordering on a pack of lies

    something else my googling jogged my memory about was the long-term "plan" Olshey had:

    Aldridge was quoted, saying:

    "I'm happy to stay, happy to be here, happy with the direction the team has gone the last year or two... This has no impact on my interest in staying in Portland. I just want to get a five-year deal. I feel like that's the best decision on my part."
    Aldridge's statements went well beyond the financial:

    "I want to be the best Blazer — ever. If I stay the rest of my career, I should be able to catch Clyde by then. I should be able to leave a mark on a big-time franchise that is going to be seen forever. And I will be able to say I played here my whole career. This city has embraced me and grown with me. I have so much history, it just makes sense to stay."
    "This was not the situation," the source tells Blazer's Edge. "Olshey wanted Aldridge to sign an extension badly. Aldridge was reluctant. He was not sure he wanted to play in Portland and he told Olshey he wouldn't extend. Olshey knew it would look bad and wouldn't help Aldridge, the team, or his own image. He asked Aldridge to call Freeman and tell him those things to keep the pressure off. This was premeditated, set up by Neil."
    https://www.blazersedge.com/2015/7/...agent-news-neil-olshey-portland-trail-blazers


    sure looks like Olshey was running a long con on Blazer fans. Yeah, I guess you could argue that he was doing what all GM's do to try and maintain the trade value of assets or discourage competition for free agents. But Portland didn't trade Aldridge at the deadline so that consideration was gone.

    I wasn't upset that Hughes was fired. I do think if you weigh actions: Hughes telling the fairly obvious truth that cut against PR, or Olshey running a PR con on Blazer fans, Hughes didn't commit much of a sin
     
  12. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    That would work, but ZBo was great inside, and Mrs HCP always tells me The HCP is awful inside
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  13. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    There you go, those rebounding stats bring some actual validity to your point.

    Even then, they can be skewed based on how often Zach defends stretch-4s, and how often he switches onto guards. Hes the same rebounder as Aminu is, but at C he would rebound better, due to being closer to the hoop (like Meyers). Nurkic is also such a great rebounder that hes going to skew on/off court splits.

    In DBPM (Better than DRPM IMO), Zach is shown as an above average defender (1.3 BPM). Opposition FG% is always a messy stat, that's skewed by a number of things (for example, our very hard SOS), and doesnt really account for any situational factors.
     
  14. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    A few here knew this and shared, but met the wrath of blind Homers
     
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  15. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    What's funny is that nearly everyone in here (minus myself) took it as a sign that Olshey was doing everything he could to appease LA. I think it ties in to a previous post of yours I responded to regarding forum whipping boys - Nic was yesterday's CJ.
     
  16. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Is that why she locks him out of the house when she brings 'friends' over?
     
  17. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Blazersedge had/has a huge problem with Olshey and everything in that "article" was pure speculation based on biased hatred. The Blazers no longer give Blazersedge full media access to games and Dave has had a grudge since.

    Even Aldridge himself disputed that theory. Why would he say he still considered staying if he wasn't offered a contract? Why would Dame try to get him to stay if Olshey's plan was to let him walk?

    You hate Olshey so lets stick to the plentiful amount of facts to bash him instead of baseless speculation.
     
  18. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    to start with, I haven't argued that Zach isn't an above average defender. I've just argued he's not a real good one, yet, unless of course, the top 120 player in any one stat are "good"

    as for DBPM...sure, I'll use it to. By the way, Zach is actually at 1.2 not 1.3, anyway, NBA ranks:

    99 Nemanja Bjelica 1.2
    100 Lorenzo Brown 1.2
    101 Willie Cauley-Stein 1.2
    102 Tyson Chandler 1.2
    103 Zach Collins 1.2
    104
    Taj Gibson 1.2
    105 Amir Johnson 1.2
    106 Guerschon Yabusele 1.2

    http://bkref.com/tiny/ySLjx

    I'm thinking that stat shows pretty much the same thing the other stats do...that Zach isn't there yet as a good defender. He may very well be on his way...he's still very young and defensive skill takes time to develop

    Zach is an amazing contrast to Meyers. Meyers is all slow-twitch reaction and reflex; Zach is fast-twitch. I fully expect he can maintain that fast-twitch ability as he improves his core strength, and it's the lack of core strength that's holding him back on both ends of the floor

    all that said, I'm just fine with Zach taking minutes from Meyers. I mean, for chrissakes, we've had to endure 6.3 seasons of Meyers as Blazer fans. Isn't there a mercy rule for something like that?
     
  19. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Every day you post, "I'm not defending Olshey, but..." and then you give some weak excuse for what Olshey does. You love Olshey.
     
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  20. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Get out of here with your stupid bullshit posts. I defended most of what he did until this past summer. I can simultaneously think he's done a terrible job recently while defending decisions prior to that.
     
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