For Collins to develop, Meyers must sit.

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Scalma, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    are you saying Dave's lying and made up the source?

    where was it said that he wasn't offered a contract? And where was it said that Olshey's plan was to let him walk?

    I think it's certain that Olshey offered extensions in 2014 and a contract in 2015. But this situation wasn't in Olshey's control, it was in Aldridge's control. Olshey tried to get Aldridge signed but Aldridge wasn't having it. The only thing in Olshey's control was the spin surrounding the situation and he spun at a sonic level

    why cut out half the fun?

    besides that, without baseless speculation websites like this would wither and die
     
  2. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    What you call defending can also be considered a logical explanation and every bit as valid if not more than what was speculated by Blazers Edge. Sometimes we have trouble seeing beyond our nose.
     
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  3. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Aldridge didn't sign the extension so he had an opportunity to experience free agency and if he signed with Portland he could make more money, He chose the Spurs and then it was rumored that he called Lillard and inquired about getting back to Portland when he was struggling to play in SA. .
     
  4. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    I think a huge factor also was his son & mother lived there.
     
  5. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Of course as there are usually several factors that played into it.
     
  6. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    I said 1.3 because I looked at his "-0.2 OBPM" and his "1.1 BPM".

    It seems like you're trying to skew this stat towards your narrative. For one, a ranking of 103 out of the 400-500 players that have played this season is in the top 20-25%, so I don't see how that specific stat shows that "he's not there yet". It actually shows that he's pretty good. (I like BPM because you can judge OBPM/DBPM [Not cumulatively] in the following way: 0 as average, 1+ as good, 2+ as very good, 3+ as great/borderline star level, 4+ all-star level, and 5+ as superstar level).

    I created a query with a minimum of 300 minutes played (At least 12min per game if 25 games have been played) to account for skews in sample size.

    Zach ranks in a tie for 71st out of 287 players. He's in the top quarter of defenders for that stat, so I have no idea how this stat says "he isn't there yet as a good defender".
     
  7. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    I'm just gonna say this... I have a better source than Dave...

    Also, Neil doesn't let anything leak, and keeps good track of who he says and to whom. Everyone knows this. This scenario that BlazersEdge spins up is the last thing that Olshey would let leak (i.e. tell someone he didn't have 110% trust in). BlazersEdge reporting this makes it more likely that it's false.
     
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  8. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I just did what you said you did...searched for a DBPM ranking of players that have played 300 minutes or more. Zach was tied for 71st, but 50 of the players at Zach's DBPM or better are PF's or C's.

    it's the same for all defensive stats, they favor bigs, or more accurately, big men show better in defensive stats.

    so then, if you're comparing apples to apples, which you surely should be when talking defense, you need to be normalizing for PF's and C's. How many are there in the NBA? Portland has 5. How many have played 300 minutes? Portland has 4. That's 4 out of 15. Is Portland typical? Maybe not, but if you have only 287 players that make the cut, it may be probable that only 100 or so are PF's and C's; give or take 10 or 20. If it's 100 than Zach may barley be in the top 50%. Likely he doesn't crack the top 1/3 of big men.

    now, I don't want to get trapped into a semantic debate about the meaning of "good". If you want to assert that Zach is a good defender, fine. I just won't agree until I see Zach defend his floor position better against physical contact
     
  9. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Hm, maybe Zach's defensive BPM could be higher if he was playing his natural position of center more often, where he'd be allowed to block shots and protect the rim instead of chasing around small-ball 4s because of Meyers. It's not coincidence that his BPM and other defensive stats were much better when he was playing center only.
     
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  10. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    This negative thread is seriously wrong in my view. When Meyers is Center and Zach is Forward, these 2 can play well together and have helped each other. Both of them circulating to sweet spots for catch and shoot offense can add points to the game when the bench is in and this is what will boost Blazer scoring.

    Lineup analysis in Basketball-reference shows that Meyers and Zach playing together have a positive effect on each other. The most negative pairings for Zach are Mo, Nik, and Caleb for points and TRB%. In my view Meyers can help Zach's scoring opportunities and defense, and Zach can reciprocate.

    The Blazers are already sacrificing to aid Zach because he is averaging 7.7 pts in 19.5 min with a per of 14.2 and a BPM of 1.1 compared to 5.8 pts in 12.6 min with a per of 19.2 and a BMP of 2.6. If anything, I would increase Meyers time to about the same as Zach and set both of them up for increased scoring from optimized off ball floor rotations. They should flow to different parts of the court to offer a greater scoring threat than was apparent in recent games.

    There is a lot to be gained when these 2 bigs are used for their talents on both offense and defense.
     
  11. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    It's not fun because it's been discussed for 3.5 years now and no new information has been presented.
     
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  12. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    It seems to me like your playing both sides here. The comments made by Kim Hughes were before free agency started. If they were still hoping that Aldridge would stay and offered him a max contract, then the Batum trade didn't signify anything. Olshey specifically lined up all the big contracts to expire that summer so he could keep building if Aldridge stays or reset if he left. Woj reported that the Batum trade had nothing to do with if Aldridge was staying or leaving.

    After Wes went down it changed everything. I don't believe for a second that Aldridge had made up his mind before the season started. He is one of the most sensitive and wishy-washy players of all-time. The ending of that season left a sour taste for everyone and it wasn't until then that I believe Aldridge was going to leave. If Olshey knew Aldridge was leaving before the season why on Earth would he trade a future 1st rounder for Afflalo and why wouldn't he just trade Aldridge and then tell everyone that he said he was leaving. It just doesn't make sense. I believe Aldridge meant those words when he said them and then changed his mind later.
     
  13. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    didnt notice a damn thing different tonight without meyers. He sucks.
     
  14. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    If Meyers had been in the game for 16+ min and the passes allowing him to shoot 6 swish3s, we would have the 9 additional points that would be enough to win the game. When you recognize that Meyers is shooting 50%+ swish3s, you realize how much potential offense the Blazer coaches are leaving unused, and can see what is being missed.
     
  15. Fez Hammersticks

    Fez Hammersticks スーパーバッド Zero Cool

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    A bigman coach should be a priority.

    I doubt it's even on Neil's radar though.
     
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  16. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I gotta say I think @hoopsjock is pretty fair with NO. Sometimes I'm not, because I don't like him. I try to stay "fair", but he bugs me just his personality I don't like it...
    I've seen hoops both criticize him and say good things about him or defend his decisions. Now sometimes I disagree with him but overall I think he's much more fair in his approach than I am.
     
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  17. ripcityboy

    ripcityboy Well-Known Member

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    Meyers hardly played at all tonight. Zach just looked more confused. He;s going to sink or swim regardless of who we stick next to him. I swear I almost want to start up a GoFundMe account to get him a series of coaching sessions with Ewing or McHale.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  18. rotary111

    rotary111 Well-Known Member

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    I like it when Collins gets the ball down low, gathers himself and works on his post shakes. The 3pt line Collins can happen later in his career when he's established himself in the key.
     
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  19. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Imma just need you to hold your little horses here rook...

    There's a whole thread about that SOFT BITCH The Texas Turncoat. Read it, then post.
     
  20. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    All you do is attack Olshey so WTF is the difference?
     

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