Nurkic is our 2nd best Player, and it's not even close

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Labinot41, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    He has never averaged as many assists as McCollum since both have been starting. If it makes you feel better to eliminate Thompson that's fine as I have already proven that McCollum isn't one of the worst passing sg in the history of the NBA. What's also interesting is offensively the career stats between McCollum and Thompson are fairly close. One thing to factor in is that GS has been one of the best offensive teams in the history of the game. You would think that would lead to more assists. Passing to a Steph Curry and Kevin Durant is a nice luxury for any teammate to have.
     
  2. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    Keep trying Jennifer
     
  3. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    There have been 10 guards in NBA history with a season playing 30+ mpg, with a usage rate of 26% or above, and an assist rate of 13% or below. Gervin did it 4 times. Michael Redd, Kevin Martin, and Klay Thompson are the only ones since 2000 (3 seasons each). So far this year, CJ is poised to become the eleventh NBA guard to join that exclusive yet somewhat ignominious club.

    http://bkref.com/tiny/qKJCL

    Based on that, it's actually arguable that this season, he is playing like one of the worst passing guards in NBA history.
     
  4. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    Yes, not even close. Nurk is closer to our best player (he's not!) than to 3rd best.
    PS. Aminu is our 3rd best player.
     
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  5. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    c'mon man...that's just ridiculous

    Klay plays with Curry, Durant, and Green. Those three average 18.1 assists/game which is only 3 less then the entire Blazer team averages. Klay's role is to catch and shoot. CJ has to have the ball in his hands 5 times as long as Klay does...dribble dribble dribble

    Gordon plays with Harden and CP3. Those guys dominate the ball and the offense...and Gordon plays off the bench

    the other 3 guys I'm not even going to justify or rationalize, one way or the other, how they play or the roles they fill for their teams. But congratulations on searching long enough to find SG's who may or may not be worse at finding teammates than CJ is

    but let's go back to the CJ/Klay example. Obviously, the Warriors have no need to have Klay act as a playmaker; they have that covered big-time. But Portland is so desperate for someone other than Dame to carry the burden of running the offense, they "have" to play Turner 25 minutes a game. And this isn't something new this year. The Blazers have desperately needed that 2nd playmaker since the Aldridge team broke up, and CJ's response to his team's obvious need has to become more of a black hole every single season as shown by the progression of his assist average:
    2015-16 4.3 2016-17 3.6 2017-18 3.4 2018-19 2.5

    sure....we've been hammering CJ a lot around here and probably some of it is unfair...or at least missing some context. But when it comes to CJ with the ball in his hands consistently calling his own offense over that of more efficient teammates, all the criticism is deserved.
     
  6. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    And I'm staying with my prediction from a few months ago, that Nurk will end up being the best center in the NBA.
     
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  7. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    He's got a ways to go before he can be listed ahead of Embiid, Jokic, Gobert, probably Towns, Capela, Vucevic, even Gasol really...but we can keep holding out hope.
     
  8. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    RPM has only Jokic and Vucevic ahead of him this year. That's a small sample for RPM but we'll see how the long run goes. I feel like Nurk is improving greatly on offense and already elite defensively. Very high IQ. Hope his FT% holds up as that's big deal for someone who gets fouled as much as he does.
     
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  9. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Boy, those are some horrible shooting guards on your list.
     
  10. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I'm not going to pretend like I watch a lot of Warriors basketball, but I always thought of Klay as a catch-and-shoot type of guard. Or spot up and shoot.
     
  11. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Digging into this further, it looks like CJ is trending worse.

    This year, nearly a third of his passes are to Dame, and he's only getting half an assist out of nearly 9 passes a game he makes to Dame.

    upload_2019-1-3_14-21-23.png

    Last year, the targets of his passes were a bit more varied.
    upload_2019-1-3_14-22-53.png

    This was the year prior
    upload_2019-1-3_14-24-44.png

    Key takeaway is a marked increase in frequency of passes to Dame. And we know Dame likes to dribble and create his own offense. That means the passer doesn't get an assist. Maybe that's why CJ's ast% is so pitiful-- a deliberate change in the offense that he can't control. Even Jusuf is expanding his game and passing more himself rather than just finishing on the P&R.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  12. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Nope.
    Has a lot to do with Lillaed not being a catch and shoot type player. He usually shoots off the dribble or drives to the basket.. That doesn't lead to assists
     
  13. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    I know, I said the exact same thing.
     
  14. Labinot41

    Labinot41 Well-Known Member

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  15. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    FIFY
    Nice to meet you Jennifer.
     
  16. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    From the article:

    If we take a look at the NBA’s TPA metric, Nurkic’s value is made even more clear. It calculates offensive points Added and defensive Points Saved based on adjusting offensive box plus / minus (OBPM) and defensive box plus / minus (DBPM) to account for the number of possessions the player in question is present for. The sum of these two values is finalized as Total Points Added. Among those who haven’t reached their sixth season in the NBA, Nurkic’s 108.67 total points added is the fourth-highest this year. In similar minutes, Nurkic has more total points added than Kawhi Leonard, Joel Embiid, Jimmy Butler, Kyle Lowry, and DeMar DeRozan. All of these players have been on an All-NBA team at one point in their respective careers.
     
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  17. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, European players all have great fundamentals. That’s a credit to the coaching overseas. When euros bust it’s usually mental, often times a product of being overmatched physically, and/or having trouble assimilating to life in America. Nurkic not only is bigger than everyone, but what really separates him is his supreme confidence in himself. He doesn’t give a fuuuuck and isn’t scared of anyone. He was like that in Denver when he wasn’t even established.

    What we’re seeing now is everything kind of coming together. I hope Stotts keeps running the offense through him, even when adversity hits, and it will hit, because it hits everyone. Just please god don’t revert back to hopscotch mccollum when it does. There aren’t ten centers with more all around talent than Nurkic. There may not even be five.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  18. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    Nice article, but this sentence is completely untrue:
    As an oldy-but-goodie, it's really weird to see a screen set (in the first video) so freaking far from the basket - it's really a new NBA.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  19. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    Careful..... Some may interpret that as a slight of the AAU system in America which could be seen as racist.
     
  20. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    I’ll say this; Cuban wasn’t wrong.
     
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