<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 28 2007, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's college graduates that started this stupid war. And some of them predominantly white men probably BEEN should've been sent to jail. And what about the overwhelming support that Americans gave to this president for this decision? Well educated or not, America was completely pussy and reactive to stimuli that led us to a huge error of judgment.Race, education, or illegality had nothing to do with the way we perceived this war. ALL the black people I knew, ex-cons, single moms, high school kids, knew this was bullsh** from the start of the Iraq propaganda. We're very well educated when it comes to the bait and switch.PrimeTime has a different opinion. But it's not based on jail or undereducation. Nothing to do with that unless the well-educated are pretty undereducated. It's the same ignorance that 70% of the country was swimming in in 2002.</div>I don't know where the F*ck you people are getting a racial issue out of this. I didn't say a damned thing about race. I didn't say anything about black people being uneducated and/or going to jail, Primetime did. If you want to talk about race and how it relates to stupid sh*t, talk to him. I was talking about people being undereducated and how it relates him not knowing anything about what happened in Iraq/the Middle East.Another problem is that you're making a false dichotomy. Do you really think that I believe everyone who has been to college is a genius and every person who has been to high school is an idiot? Most of the people you're referring to are people who received a college education solely, because they were related to someone with a lot of power or money. I, on the other hand, earned going to college through good grades, hard work, etc. So yeah, excuse me for occassionally looking down on others who waste their lives away by doing stupid sh*t.This has nothing to do with getting into the war in Iraq, either. Primetime compared Hussein to Hitler. I can't think of anyone who made such a dumb comparison before or after 2003. It is mostly uneducated people that believe things like that or other dumb sh*t like people that think George Bush masterminded 9/11. Simple reasoning skills and a rudimentary knowledge of history and the world would tell you that those things are idiotic. Primetime doesn't have those things because he's too busy smoking pot and getting thrown in jail.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (desi tmac91 @ May 28 2007, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>btw oil is NOT a renewable resource, which is why gas prices are going up.</div>That has little to do with why gas prices are going up.
I didn't mean the black people in any bad way, just like when I say the asian people, the whities, the a-rabs. By I love the black people I mean, I love the black people. I mean, I have many black, or if you prefer, African-American friends. I have a more diverse group of friends than anyone.What assumptions did I make about him? He was getting defensive when there was not need to be. "You Guys", well yeah that wasn't a good one, but I don't like how some of the people of your ethnicity say whatever they want about one race and then get defensive in situations when there is no need to be.And just stating that he's talking about someone stereotyping when he's not really one that can argue it when he would fit right in if Justice was stereotyping, which he wasn't. I apologize to Primetime if I was to harsh there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ May 28 2007, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jeez ASU, stop stereotyping black people you American hating towelhead.</div>Death to A-mer-I-ca!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ May 28 2007, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know where the F*ck you people are getting a racial issue out of this.</div>"You people" didn't do sh*t Mr.Sensitivity. I said the same thing. It's NOT a racial issue.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Another problem is that you're making a false dichotomy. Do you really think that I believe everyone who has been to college is a genius and every person who has been to high school is an idiot? Most of the people you're referring to are people who received a college education solely, because they were related to someone with a lot of power or money. I, on the other hand, earned going to college through good grades, hard work, etc. So yeah, excuse me for occassionally looking down on others who waste their lives away by doing stupid sh*t.</div>I'm not excusing you for jack. And I'm accusing you of even less. All I did was talk ideas. No false dichotomy in gauging the mood on why we went to war or the reasons for doing it. I kicked ass in college - first in my family. So? I'm not smug enough to believe looking down on somebody else is valid, any reason. Live with yourself Motherf*cker.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ May 28 2007, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I didn't mean the black people in any bad way, just like when I say the asian people, the whities, the a-rabs. By I love the black people I mean, I love the black people. I mean, I have many black, or if you prefer, African-American friends. I have a more diverse group of friends than anyone.</div>You talk about black people like f*cking space alien bugs. Like you people is a separate species or something. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>What assumptions did I make about him? He was getting defensive when there was not need to be. "You Guys", well yeah that wasn't a good one, but I don't like how some of the people of your ethnicity say whatever they want about one race and then get defensive in situations when there is no need to be.</div>I understood why PT got pissed. If somebody acts like they know everything about me cause they know I been to jail or smoke pot or have a 12th grade education and is trying to piss on me about it, maybe I have a right to be defensive, you know? It's a very familiar, yet unpleasant feeling. Damn homie. I ain't too emotional about this. I was just trying to articulate the other end. Yo opinion is yo opinion. For realI'm the one saying that race in this discussion really doesn't matter, and if it does, then pretty much every race looks like a bunch of stupid asses.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Captain @ May 28 2007, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You ok Gentile?Seem kinda uptight today.</div>Eh.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 28 2007, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>"You people" didn't do sh*t Mr.Sensitivity. I said the same thing. It's NOT a racial issue.I'm not excusing you for jack. And I'm accusing you of even less. All I did was talk ideas. No false dichotomy in gauging the mood on why we went to war or the reasons for doing it. I kicked ass in college - first in my family. So? I'm not smug enough to believe looking down on somebody else is valid, any reason. Live with yourself Motherf*cker.</div>Yes, you people. As in the group of people accusing me of saying anything of race. There you go making a race issue where there is none. Are you Al Sharpton? Jesse Jackson?You're saying that you said it isn't a racial issue, but you did mention white people that need to go to jail. That seems to have something to do with race. You also mentioned black people being apparently smarter than everybody else regarding the war on Iraq, which is particularly funny since Primetime is with the opposing viewpoint of yours.It is clearly a false dichotomy. You don't seem to understand what that means either. Not everyone is a college graduate or only a high school graduate (hint: I fit into neither of those categories, hence a part of the false dichotomy, among other reasons). It has nothing to do with the war on Iraq. My argument had little to do with the war on Iraq, if you had read my post. It had to do with comparing Hitler to Hussein. Do you disagree that it's a stupid comparison?You can call me smug if you'd like. It doesn't bother me. I think people that waste their lives away, smoke weed all the time, and go to prison are probably not going to understand things that I do. I live with myself just fine, thanks.And Primetime can be upset if he wants, I'd just rather him not accuse me of making any comments about race when I clearly never did. That's idiotic and gives me a bad reputation that I didn't earn (unlike some people).
-Nobody can give you your reputation Justice. You earned it.-When we get into it, why do you insist on telling me I don't know what words mean? Proving my vocabulary is a cheap semantic dance that I've long outgrown. But I'll indulge you yet again. Yet another straw man where you put words into my mouth and then refute your own invention. Reread the thread. Your whole "false dichotomy" premise is based on the idea that I said you called college graduates geniuses and mere high school graduates idiots. I never accused you of anything other than arrogance.-Never said anything about you personally going to or graduating college, therefore this "false dichotomy" is invalid. You're a smart cat. But please, get your aim aligned properly before you fire, stop looking down on people until you can prove that you're somehow "better," and check yourself.-I'm not Sharpton or Jackson. To my knowledge, I've never chemically straightened my hair. But I think that race as a concept is inherent in most American social discourse. I didn't make it this way. -Lastly, "Race...has nothing to do with how we perceived this war." Those are my words, guy. How can you say I made this into a racial issue? That makes no sense. My personal feelings of race is this: There's no such thing. The word can't be adequately defined, only described. And yet...I'm very fascinated by the contradictions of race. And I'm sorry for calling you an MF. I was having a bad day.
Oh, well sorry for me reading into something like this as though you intended on it sounding like black people were different from white people. I obviously misread this.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 28 2007, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ALL the black people I knew, ex-cons, single moms, high school kids, knew this was bullsh** from the start of the Iraq propaganda. We're very well educated when it comes to the bait and switch.</div>You don't have to say anything for it to be clearly implied. You follow up a statement that is a pretty obviously contradictory to the one you just posted (what I just posted). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that you were making a statement about the difference between white people and black people. You pretty much said that white, college-learned people are responsible for this war, while black uneducated people knew better. You can claim that it's not what you're saying, but I'm not a fool. That is exactly what you're saying, and that is a racial argument (it is semantics to say that you can define race... name one person that you know who doesn't know whether he's white, black, red, or whatever... please).But all that misses the entire point of my argument, which is that what Primetime said had very little to do with the War on Iraq. I don't know how many times I have to say that.You are right about people not being able to create my rep to an extent. Only complete fools would think that I'm making a racial argument by pointing out that Primetime went to jail and is uneducated. That has nothing to do with race.
But isn't that the same PT did? See what you "clearly" meant to imply, and just fill in the blanks? I'm talking about the jail, pot, and education comment(s).On some level, you're right about one thing. I do think for the most part, that black people saw through the push for the war immediately. Of course, it's not an absolute consensus. What is? Maybe some of them just hated Bush immediately. Conversely, surely some fell for the propaganda. Some just repeated it. But overwhelmingly, MOST white people fell hard for this crap in 2002, according to almost every poll done at the time. That's a fact you can't really argue with.It seems to me that race is a very contradictory subject. Sure we all know what it is, but still, nobody can define it in absolute terms. Therefore, the idea of "race" is also quite a bit untrustworthy. I don't think black people are naturally that different from whites (but that may be the case). I do think that our collective American experiences definitely impact our individual and collective perspectives. One difference between our approaches is that I acknowledge that shaky ground going into such discussions ahead of time. Another difference may be, and I'm not absolutely sure about this on your part, is that I'm comfortable with chaos and I'm not afraid to be wrong or contradict myself on this issue. The term itself is very contradictory and seems to yield few absolutes other than historical. I'm still very much a student of this game.Finally, what you said about PrimeTime not contributing much to the argument may be correct. But that insulting personal dismissal of him made me want to punch the monitor. You even admit looking down on him. It's just in my nature to stand up to bullies, intellectual or otherwise.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 28 2007, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But isn't that the same PT did? See what you "clearly" meant to imply, and just fill in the blanks? I'm talking about the jail, pot, and education comment(s).</div>No. I made no mention of black or white, nor did I imply it. I actually didn't know whether Primetime was white or black anyway, so that would be a pretty stupid thing to say I implied. I said he went to jail (he did), he smokes pot (he does), and I said he is only a high school graduate (he is). That is pretty f*cking literal right there. I really don't know how anyone could be so stupid to think that I was implying anything with that. It is along the lines of a Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton tactic to bring up race where it isn't an issue, which is exactly what you and Primetime are doing. It's easily one of the least tactful and most idiotic methods which the black community calls apon. Congrats.Yours wasn't filling in the blanks. You actually said that white people should go to jail for the war on Iraq (in a nutshell) and that black people saw through the war on Iraq. That is not even implication, really.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 28 2007, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>On some level, you're right about one thing. I do think for the most part, that black people saw through the push for the war immediately. Of course, it's not an absolute consensus. What is? Maybe some of them just hated Bush immediately. Conversely, surely some fell for the propaganda. Some just repeated it. But overwhelmingly, MOST white people fell hard for this crap in 2002, according to almost every poll done at the time. That's a fact you can't really argue with.</div>I didn't say that. You did. Please show me a poll where white people "fell for it," so to speak. Note that it would have to be shown as an increase/decrease in approval based on race immediately after the war started. Showing that black people disapproved of Bush more than wouldn't prove anything, because black people tend to lean left politically.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 28 2007, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Finally, what you said about PrimeTime not contributing much to the argument may be correct. But that insulting personal dismissal of him made me want to punch the monitor. You even admit looking down on him. It's just in my nature to stand up to bullies, intellectual or otherwise.</div>Yes, I am smarter than Primetime when it comes to political and historical issues around the world. He knows less than me in those fields, because he has not applied himself. Go ahead, punch your monitor. That will prove how idiotic my point is.
Well you're not smarter than I am. Too bad. You're right about something though. Such poll data is easy to find. But I gotta go to work, so I can afford my weed and stay out of jail doing it. See ya later. I'll be back by 5.Hypocrisy - You calling anything distasteful. Ha.
http://www.counterpunch.org/sandronsky04072003.htmlCites ABC News/Washington Post polls in late January and late March 2002. The poll concludes that black Americans were more than twice as likely to be against the war as white people, liberal and conservative.http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/st...q-1353190.shtmlPew Research poll released on Feb. 20, 2003, one month before the war started. It shows Hispanic support at 63%, White support at 73%, and Black support at 44% (Pew must?ve really been mining the suburbs for black folks for this one).http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Y4Mui...;cd=2&gl=usJoint Center for Political and Economic Studies Poll - October 2002. Only 19.2% of African Americans voiced support for emerging Bush policy on attacking Iraq.Here?s a recent poll from CBS news. 72% of ALL adults now disapprove of the Iraq War. It only took a few years for the rest of America to catch up. Gullible slow pokes.http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htmIf you need more details or poll data, let me know. This is kinda fun.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 29 2007, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well you're not smarter than I am. Too bad. You're right about something though. Such poll data is easy to find. But I gotta go to work, so I can afford my weed and stay out of jail doing it. See ya later. I'll be back by 5.Hypocrisy - You calling anything distasteful. Ha.</div>I don't know what proof you have of me not being smarter than you. Haha, you went to a college. Oh no, stop the presses.So you do not think that calling something racist when it is not racist is distasteful? Typical. You like playing the race card because you are too idiotic to make a logical point.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 29 2007, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.counterpunch.org/sandronsky04072003.htmlCites ABC News/Washington Post polls in late January and late March 2002. The poll concludes that black Americans were more than twice as likely to be against the war as white people, liberal and conservative.http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/st...q-1353190.shtmlPew Research poll released on Feb. 20, 2003, one month before the war started. It shows Hispanic support at 63%, White support at 73%, and Black support at 44% (Pew must?ve really been mining the suburbs for black folks for this one).http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Y4Mui...;cd=2&gl=usJoint Center for Political and Economic Studies Poll - October 2002. Only 19.2% of African Americans voiced support for emerging Bush policy on attacking Iraq.Here?s a recent poll from CBS news. 72% of ALL adults now disapprove of the Iraq War. It only took a few years for the rest of America to catch up. Gullible slow pokes.http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htmIf you need more details or poll data, let me know. This is kinda fun.</div>For the first, show me the actual poll that they did. I do not know whether it is online, in the streets, or anything. You just have some guy (I have no idea who he is) saying that some other people (I have no proof that they even did the poll) agree with your point. Also, it doesn't show the change in popularity that I asked for.I have no idea who the Pew Research Poll is. Okay, so some random people did a poll. So what? What makes their data irrefutable? (hint: nothing)Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies Poll... another irrefutable source. Yeah, the last one has nothing to do with what I said. Thanks for bringing it up.I still am wondering whether you think the comparison between Hitler and Saddam is stupid or whether you are too incompetant to address my point.
I'll get on that after work big dog. No problem.I'm not smarter than you because I graduated college. College only refined the intelligence and drive already present. Life taught me about respect long before college.I'm smarter than you because I don't treat people like footstools.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ May 30 2007, 06:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm smarter than you because I don't treat people like footstools.</div>Right.I didn't treat Primetime like a footstool. If there weren't people like him, there wouldn't be anyone to prepare my fast food. He's a good man.
Come on guys, seriously. Black people are just second rate citizens. I think most people would agree.
