LeBron needs to have a killer instinct to take over games. He did it in Game 5, but he doesn't have one every game. He still doesn't know when to take over or let his teammates be involved, as shown in Game 1. He needs to learn how to do that consistently, and if he never does, that's what will always separate him from Kobe and MJ. Also, LeBron is nowhere near as good defensively as Kobe, but he still has room to mature in that aspect of the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kobebryant_24OWNEDME @ Jun 3 2007, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron was the best player in the league in the 05-06 season, had an off year this year due to team USA (like pretty much everybody on team USA did), and should be back to being better than Kobe next year.And this playoffs at least shows he's more valuable than Kobe.</div>I disagree, subsititue Lebron for Kobe, there a shoe in for the title. Lebron steps up when needed, Kobe steps up all the time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 3 2007, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No way in hell is Bron the better scorer than Kobe...no way in HELL. He is not nearly as polished, doesn't have the jumpshot, nor does he have the smarts. Kobe is the better scorer, defender and clutch player. Bron is a better playmaker and rebounder, but he is not lightyears ahead of Kobe in either category, both of which are less important than scoring/defending.Kobe had to play the Phoenix fu*king Suns the last 2 years while Bron got to play the fu*king Wizards and Nets with more help than Kobe had. In the West you need another star. AI got to the Finals with only a decent supporting cast like Bron just did, but in the West with a better overall team and another star he couldn't push Spurs past 5 games in the 1st round. Kobe, Wade and Duncan all have shown up and played magnificent this time of year...I don't get the point.</div>When did I ever say LeBron was a better scorer than Kobe?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jun 3 2007, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When did I ever say LeBron was a better scorer than Kobe?</div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The only thing Kobe really has up on him is defense.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jun 3 2007, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I disagree, subsititue Lebron for Kobe, there a shoe in for the title. Lebron steps up when needed, Kobe steps up all the time.</div>No, they would still get whipped by any team out of the Wester Conference. Kobe isn't miles ahead of him and wouldn't win it all with a team like that.
Hmm, the best player ever not named Jordan vs. the best high-schooler ever not named Kobe?Kobe wins this one flat out. Lebron has 3 good games in the playoffs in a row and everyone is ready to hand him the torch. Kobe has 3 rings in a row. Lebron's J falls lethally when he's in the zone. Kobe's J falls lethally always. Kobe changes games on the defensive side of the ball and has won many games on defensive possessions. Lebron hasn't. Lebron's stock is up now, but c'mon. If you're going to try and compare these players, put everything they've done into perspective and be fair. This isn't even a solid debate. Kobe is the best player in the world right now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wade3 @ Jun 3 2007, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron has deffinatly improved since the beggining of the playoffs. And, I was glad to see him taking it to the hole against the Pistons and drawing fouls. I still think Gibson had a bigger factor in a couple of those games than Lebron did. But, nonetheless Lebron is deffinately stepping up and being one of the premier players in the league.</div>The only reason Gibson has gottten those shots was because Lebron was being doubled and Flip's defense agaist cleveland was probably the worst in history for a ECF team. He just made so many coaching flaws and couldnt find a way to stop them. Im not as high on boobie as most people, and have a feeling he wont play half as well against the spurs.
I think we really have to wait and see how much of this elevated game play stays when the next season roles around. I know LeBron said this season that he was saving himself for the second half of the regular season, so he wasn't playing as hard- we're in the finals, whatever- so will he do that next season? Who knows. But for the most part, we should be able to see how much is "for the playoffs" and how much is "here to stay" next season. That is when we can decide if he has a chance to give Kobe a run for his money- although Kobe will still be the better player next season. Going along with what Nitro said (expect explaining that James played pretty well through the playoffs, just not pretty well for LeBron James and a player that is "supposed to give Kobe a run for his money next season) LeBron didn't do anything like he did these last few games against the Pistons throughout the playoffs. So I think it is a little early to start these types of threads. It would have been different if LeBron was playing at this high level through the whole playoffs, but he hasn't. So it is just too early for all of this discussion. It was just one game offensively and another all-around. This type of thread would require LeBron to do this for most of the regular season next year, we can't judge that he will do that off of a couple of games. Like I said, we don't know how much is "here to stay" yet. I think he can do it, but will he? We don't know yet.
Kobe was not even one of the top 2 players in the league this season. So obviously he has competition
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 4 2007, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe was not even one of the top 2 players in the league this season. So obviously he has competition</div>Im curios who were the top two players in the league, if not Kobe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (([HoUsToN]) @ Jun 4 2007, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Im curios who were the top two players in the league, if not Kobe. </div>1) Nash2) Dirk3) Kobe4) Lebron
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 4 2007, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1) Nash2) Dirk3) Kobe4) Lebron</div>Dirk and Nash are not better talent-wise then Kobe. Also if you combine both of them you have 0 championships so its hard to argue valuability-wise also.3>0Kobe is the best player in the NBA right now,Lebron is a close second. If the question is whose the most valuable then Nash might be higher then Kobe but as far as talent he isnt quite on Kobes level,I think Dirk is very overrated. Dirk is basically just a big man who can rebound with great scoring skills. I think Dirk is very overrated. He isnt even the best at his position in the NBA much less better then kobe.Talent-wise top 51.Kobe Bryant2.Lebron James3.Kevin Garnett4.Dwayne Wade5.Tracy Mcgradyvaluability-wise top 51.Tim Duncan2.Steve Nash3.Kobe Bryant4.Lebron James5.Dwayne Wadenotice I dont have dirk on either list. Im not saying Dirk isnt a great player but to me he isnt truly elite. He's more of a good allstar but that's about it. His team is just very well coached and filled with depth and he happens to be the best player on that team so he won MVP. but as we've seen the MVP isnt always the most valuable player.
MVP voting does not determine the best player in the league, PFF. It's sort of a mix between being valuable and overall talent. Nash is probably only #5 and after his playoffs I have Dirk at around #7 in the league. Kobe is definitely the best player in the league. It's pretty obvious.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 4 2007, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1) Nash2) Dirk3) Kobe4) Lebron</div>If you say so. :HAHAHA:
Why is it so hard for you guys to understand?Nash > KobeNash: 3 MVPs Kobe: 0 MVPsNash: 0 titles Kobe: 3 titles (thanks in large part to Shaq)Kobe has more titles, but Nash actually has MVPs - which means he was the most valuable individualAnd if Nash were to win a title, there would be no question he would be named finals MVP, Kobe won 0 Finals MVP trophies
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 4 2007, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why is it so hard for you guys to understand?Nash > KobeNash: 3 MVPs Kobe: 0 MVPsNash: 0 titles Kobe: 3 titles (thanks in large part to Shaq)Kobe has more titles, but Nash actually has MVPs - which means he was the most valuable individualAnd if Nash were to win a title, there would be no question he would be named finals MVP, Kobe won 0 Finals MVP trophies</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 4 2007, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why is it so hard for you guys to understand?Nash > KobeNash: 3 MVPs Kobe: 0 MVPsNash: 0 titles Kobe: 3 titles (thanks in large part to Shaq)Kobe has more titles, but Nash actually has MVPs - which means he was the most valuable individualAnd if Nash were to win a title, there would be no question he would be named finals MVP, Kobe won 0 Finals MVP trophies</div>MVP does not mean best player of the year. An award given by the media doesn't make you the best, and if you went by MVP's like you are then Nash is a top 5-top 10 player all-time...and he's not. Nash and Kobe are really close offensively, but Kobe is a much, much better defensive player and so he is a better player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 4 2007, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why is it so hard for you guys to understand?Nash > KobeNash: 3 MVPs Kobe: 0 MVPsNash: 0 titles Kobe: 3 titles (thanks in large part to Shaq)Kobe has more titles, but Nash actually has MVPs - which means he was the most valuable individualAnd if Nash were to win a title, there would be no question he would be named finals MVP, Kobe won 0 Finals MVP trophies</div>Being a more valuable individual for your team does not make you a better basketball player. The only way you can even compare these two is if you only look at offense because there is no way in hell you are going to compare Nash's defense to Kobe's. Now on the offensive end, Kobe has more of an offensive arsenal to dispose of than Nash does. A better low post game, better finishing ability, better ability to score over double and even tripple teams, he is better at making off balance shots, and so on. Nash is better on offense because of his teammates. Just about all of them (even the big men) can hit from just about anywhere on a spot up jumper. Because of this, if you double Nash (who can find open players) you are basically screwed. Kobe doesn't have the supporting cast Nash does, how so? Nash has an All-NBA first team center, a All-NBA first defensive team player, and the sixth man of the year- his back up. If that doesn't speak volumes for your supporting cast, I don't know what does. Add to that the Lakers injuries this year of key players and the fact the Lakers still had the 7th seed in the West, I don't know how you can argue that Kobe isn't a better overall player. Here is a question for you, with the team the Suns had this year, and with Steve Nash being so great, why haven't they won a championship yet?Even if you wanted to argue that Nash is a more valuable player for his team, there is no logical way you can argue he is more of a complete player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Jun 4 2007, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>MVP does not mean best player of the year. An award given by the media doesn't make you the best, and if you went by MVP's like you are then Nash is a top 5-top 10 player all-time...and he's not. Nash and Kobe are really close offensively, but Kobe is a much, much better defensive player and so he is a better player.</div>You forget the most important part: winning and elavating your teamates and yourself. NASH STANDS MILES ABOVE IN THAT CATEGORY. Nash is the most valuable player, Kobe is more talented, but Nash does more as a player
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 4 2007, 07:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You forget the most important part: winning and elavating your teamates and yourself. NASH STANDS MILES ABOVE IN THAT CATEGORY. Nash is the most valuable player, Kobe is more talented, but Nash does more as a player</div>He plays offense..... There is more to the game than just offense. When Kobe plays the whole game as a complete player, and Nash can really only play offense, how does Nash do more as a player?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You forget the most important part: winning and elavating your teamates and yourself.</div>But you were just saying something about how the rings don't matter, so in that case, why does winning matter if the rings don't? Because Nash has never won a ring and Kobe has- more than once. Elevating your teammates and yourself? Kobe is the best at doing it himself. He is the only player in the league that can seemingly reach that zone at will, where whatever he wants to happen does, a steal, a block, a made shot. Kobe can put his game on another level. As for his teammates- let's go back to last year's playoffs where the Lakers almost knocked off the better Suns team shall we? I don't know where Kobe's teammates came from, but they were huge that game. Kobe stopped playing the huge "scoring role" and started getting his teammates involved, and they almost beat the Suns. That wasn't supposed to happen.
