<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 13 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you feel like reading a 45+ page thread on RealGM, sure:http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=672681</div>Daaang.. 36 pages..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingjamez @ Jun 13 2007, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Daaang.. 36 pages..</div> Well there is 1-2 other ones 45+ pages. I got confused, there is a 45+ page Rashard Lewis thread.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jun 13 2007, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And Gerald is supposed to develop in Atlanta where they have Marvin Williams, Josh Childress, and Josh Smith? He's worth less to the Hawks than he is to us. Plus, if you add Sheldon then that clogs the middle with Al, Perk, Sheldon, Gomes, and whomever #11 is; most likely Hawes or Thornton. Meanwhile, suppose Allen doesn't recover that well, which is a distinct possibility. Who is the backup 2? Wally?</div>He would take the minutes of JJ. They are playing Smith/Williams at the 3/4. GG would play the 2. Childress is a solid rotation player but not a starter. Although Shelden is only 6'9 he is 250 and strong like ox.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 13 2007, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why would you consider taking Corey Brewer at 5 if you're getting Rashard Lewis, who would want Gerald Green to stay, plus Wally? That's a worse SF logjam than Atlanta. You do have a point though, Gerald Green and #5 is better than #11 and Williams. No arguments there. If Ainge would have accepted the Johnson/#11 for West/Ratliff/#5 (and probably a small filler), that would have been great.Also, it's Horford, not Hortford. Not a big deal, but I've seen you type that a few times and I had to say it.</div>If we take Brewer I'm assuming Lewis will be playing the 4 and Brewer the 3. I know you don't think he's capable of doing that but others do. I realize it creates a bit of a logjam as Wally, Green, and Allen would be competing for reserve minutes but I figure Green or Allen and #32 could probably be moved for the veteran PG we need. Plus I just really like Corey Brewer and think he's better than any swingman we have now outside of Pierce. I'd trade the other guys and bring him in an instant if I could get a decent big man and/or veteran point. Noted. It's only one letter away from Hartford so I think I add the t out of habit because that's how I remembered his name before he was a star at Florida.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DRob-50-Forever @ Jun 13 2007, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He would take the minutes of JJ. They are playing Smith/Williams at the 3/4. GG would play the 2. Childress is a solid rotation player but not a starter. Although Shelden is only 6'9 he is 250 and strong like ox.</div>Smith and Williams won't be playing the 4 after they draft a big man at #3. At this point Green isn't as good as Childress, although he should be in the future.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jun 13 2007, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Smith and Williams won't be playing the 4 after they draft a big man at #3. At this point Green isn't as good as Childress, although he should be in the future.</div>As "good"? Thet put up around the same numbers if you consider the minutes. Green is a much better scorer than Childress already. I really see Williams aswell as Childress as bench players. Very big roles off the bench. Basically if the Hawks wanna rebuild they would be very, very, very stupid not to do this deal. They would end up with a rotation something like this...Conley/SpeedyGreen/ChildressSmith/WilliamsHorford/JonesPachulia/WrightYoung talented and some experience aswell. I think Boston would look nice after the deal aswell.Rondo/WestJohnson/AllenPierce/WallyJefferson/GomesPerk/Williams(he's a banger so he would be fine down lown with Al at the 4/5)I mean not to mention the #11 pick. They could very well trade it to try to upgrade the post more depth wise. I mean use this as an idea and make a few tweaks either FA wise maybe or minor deals. I like. I love it!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jun 13 2007, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If we take Brewer I'm assuming Lewis will be playing the 4 and Brewer the 3. I know you don't think he's capable of doing that but others do. I realize it creates a bit of a logjam as Wally, Green, and Allen would be competing for reserve minutes but I figure Green or Allen and #32 could probably be moved for the veteran PG we need. Plus I just really like Corey Brewer and think he's better than any swingman we have now outside of Pierce. I'd trade the other guys and bring him in an instant if I could get a decent big man and/or veteran point. Noted. It's only one letter away from Hartford so I think I add the t out of habit because that's how I remembered his name before he was a star at Florida.</div> I'm just curious to know why you believe Lewis can play the 4, and full time. He's 6'10'', but so what. That doesn't mean anything. He's strictly a perimeter player that relies on his shot, will take 5+ three's a night, he's not very strong, he's an average rebounder at best for his size, he can't/won't play closer to the basket, and what makes you think he would ever be able to defend 4's on the average night? He's not a very good defender even out on the perimeter, he'd get eaten alive by 4's. He'd score 20-23 a night, but he'd give up over 30. I'm a big fan of Corey Brewer as well, but taking him AND trading for an All-Star caliber player at his position? That makes no sense, and it would honestly be a bit of a wasted draft pick. Get Rashard Lewis, fine, but don't draft a player at the same position. Get Lewis and draft a big man at 5, which would be the whole point of keeping that pick. If you want a 3 with the pick as well as Lewis, why not trade down and get a more NBA ready forward (Jeff Green) to go along with maybe a veteran point guard? I wouldn't trade for a wing period, if we got Lewis or Johnson, but just saying.
"I wouldn't trade for a wing period, if we got Lewis or Johnson, but just saying. "CB, did mean draft a wing, or am I misunderstanding?anywho, I was curious about who to take at the 5 if Atlanta takes Wright and Memphis takes Horford like everyone predicts if we get Lewis.wouldn't any other player big enough to play PF/C be a reach?If we can get Lewis and keep the 5, I'd say take a shot at Noah as we having scoring covered and need a glue guy to do the things Noah does well. He also has the size to play both big man posistions. What about trading down to Chicago's #9 and getting Duhon in the process?I've seen on another board someone suggest taking Hawes with the #5. That's just silly.If we get JJ and the #11, best big man available or Best Player available?what is everyone's thoughts
[quote name='CelticFan' post='380104' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:34 PM']"I wouldn't trade for a wing period, if we got Lewis or Johnson, but just saying. " CB, did mean draft a wing, or am I misunderstanding?[/quote] Yes, that is what I meant. Typo. Yi Jianlian would likely be the pick, if we keep it. I would definitely like that Chicago deal. Duhon is exactly what we need, and he's young. He's young, but he's got a veteran mindset and understanding of the game. If we trade 5 for 9/Duhon, draft Noah at 9 (if he's there), then work a deal with Seattle for Lewis... I will be a very happy guy. I agree that Hawes at 5 is too much of a reach, and he's certainly not what we need. He's a project, we don't need another one of them. If we get Johnson/#11, it's tough. The bigs will be taken in the top 10 and the best players available will be combo forwards like Julian Wright and Al Thornton. I have absolutely no clue what I'd do there. I'd probably try to package 11 with another young player or two for a second veteran.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 14 2007, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yi Jianlian would likely be the pick, if we keep it.</div>so you think he could play some PF as a rookie? I thought he'd be like Bargnani, KG or Gasol. tall but built like a SF until he fills out and gets adjusted after a few years.Of course he does has some potential to be more than just good and if we get some veteran help, Paul will be content and if Ainge can get Yi, he'll be content. could be a win win.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 14 2007, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would definitely like that Chicago deal. Duhon is exactly what we need, and he's young. He's young, but he's got a veteran mindset and understanding of the game. If we trade 5 for 9/Duhon, draft Noah at 9 (if he's there), then work a deal with Seattle for Lewis... I will be a very happy guy.</div>I think everyone agrees this would be a great move, espeically if we could get Noah, Green or Thorton.I also think the Celts never get this lucky.. at least not in the last 21 years.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 14 2007, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree that Hawes at 5 is too much of a reach, and he's certainly not what we need. He's a project, we don't need another one of them. If we get Johnson/#11, it's tough. The bigs will be taken in the top 10 and the best players available will be combo forwards like Julian Wright and Al Thornton. I have absolutely no clue what I'd do there. I'd probably try to package 11 with another young player or two for a second veteran.</div>That could happen if a team is wanting to move up.I think Ainge will wait it out to see who is available at the 11 and try and wheel and deal on the clock.at least, that's what I'd do.someone he covets may drop.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DRob-50-Forever @ Jun 14 2007, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As "good"? Thet put up around the same numbers if you consider the minutes. Green is a much better scorer than Childress already. I really see Williams aswell as Childress as bench players. Very big roles off the bench. Basically if the Hawks wanna rebuild they would be very, very, very stupid not to do this deal.</div>I'm not saying Childress is more talented than Green, but at the moment he's a more complete player. Gerald has a better shot and is more athletic, but his defense and basketball IQ are very weak. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 14 2007, 10:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm just curious to know why you believe Lewis can play the 4, and full time. He's 6'10'', but so what. That doesn't mean anything. He's strictly a perimeter player that relies on his shot, will take 5+ three's a night, he's not very strong, he's an average rebounder at best for his size, he can't/won't play closer to the basket, and what makes you think he would ever be able to defend 4's on the average night? He's not a very good defender even out on the perimeter, he'd get eaten alive by 4's. He'd score 20-23 a night, but he'd give up over 30.I'm a big fan of Corey Brewer as well, but taking him AND trading for an All-Star caliber player at his position? That makes no sense, and it would honestly be a bit of a wasted draft pick. Get Rashard Lewis, fine, but don't draft a player at the same position. Get Lewis and draft a big man at 5, which would be the whole point of keeping that pick. If you want a 3 with the pick as well as Lewis, why not trade down and get a more NBA ready forward (Jeff Green) to go along with maybe a veteran point guard? I wouldn't trade for a wing period, if we got Lewis or Johnson, but just saying.</div>You say he's a perimeter player like it's a bad thing. Look at Dirk. He's playing outside for most of the game and isn't a strong defender either. He's 6'10 230, which is big enough to play the 4, even if he isn't that strong. He may get beat by a lot of big 4's, but he'll give them just as many problems as they give him. This team will be built to run, not physically pound out games. I know Brewer isn't exactly what we need, but he's the best player available imo and gives us much needed defensive help. He's an upgrade over what we currently have. I also disagree that Jeff Green will be any better than Brewer at any poin in their careers. Green, Allen, #32, and Wally could be dealt for a big man to add depth up front or the PG we need.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 14 2007, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>so you think he could play some PF as a rookie? I thought he'd be like Bargnani, KG or Gasol. tall but built like a SF until he fills out and gets adjusted after a few years.</div> He'd be able to play the 4. He'd compliment Big Al pretty nicely and help spread the floor a bit. He may need to get stronger in order to play inside, but that's not his game to begin with and he certainly isn't going to be able to guard any wings. He's definitely gonna play the 4. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jun 14 2007, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not saying Childress is more talented than Green, but at the moment he's a more complete player. Gerald has a better shot and is more athletic, but his defense and basketball IQ are very weak. You say he's a perimeter player like it's a bad thing. Look at Dirk. He's playing outside for most of the game and isn't a strong defender either. He's 6'10 230, which is big enough to play the 4, even if he isn't that strong. He may get beat by a lot of big 4's, but he'll give them just as many problems as they give him. This team will be built to run, not physically pound out games. I know Brewer isn't exactly what we need, but he's the best player available imo and gives us much needed defensive help. He's an upgrade over what we currently have. I also disagree that Jeff Green will be any better than Brewer at any poin in their careers. Green, Allen, #32, and Wally could be dealt for a big man to add depth up front or the PG we need.</div> I'm not saying it's a bad thing that Lewis is a perimeter player, he is who he is. But all I'm saying is that he's nowhere near a power forward in this league, and the ONLY reason you would like him there is his listed height of 6'10''. If he were 6'8'' and a half, you would have never even said that. He is not a 4, he has a hard enough time defending 3's, and he would get eaten alive by 4's. Just because Lewis is 2 inches taller than most SF's doesn't mean he can play the 4. He is strictly a perimeter player. Dirk is also a 7 footer, bigger than Lewis, tougher inside, and a good rebounder. He's also way too sluggish to play the 3. I also don't recall ever saying Jeff Green is going to be better than Corey Brewer. In fact, I rank Brewer the #2 SF and Green at #3. However, Green is more NBA ready than Brewer at this point in time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 14 2007, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He'd be able to play the 4. He'd compliment Big Al pretty nicely and help spread the floor a bit. He may need to get stronger in order to play inside, but that's not his game to begin with and he certainly isn't going to be able to guard any wings. He's definitely gonna play the 4.I'm not saying it's a bad thing that Lewis is a perimeter player, he is who he is. But all I'm saying is that he's nowhere near a power forward in this league, and the ONLY reason you would like him there is his listed height of 6'10''. If he were 6'8'' and a half, you would have never even said that. He is not a 4, he has a hard enough time defending 3's, and he would get eaten alive by 4's. Just because Lewis is 2 inches taller than most SF's doesn't mean he can play the 4. He is strictly a perimeter player.Dirk is also a 7 footer, bigger than Lewis, tougher inside, and a good rebounder. He's also way too sluggish to play the 3.I also don't recall ever saying Jeff Green is going to be better than Corey Brewer. In fact, I rank Brewer the #2 SF and Green at #3. However, Green is more NBA ready than Brewer at this point in time.</div>Dirk may be a better rebounder and a few inches taller, but he's just as bad defensively. Offensively he's always on the perimeter as well, meaning he doesn't play inside that much, just like Lewis. Their games are similar. He weighs 230. That's not exactly a stick figure. Even if he were 6'8 instead of 6'10 that's still enough size to play the 4. Look at Shawn Marion; 6'7 228. Lewis isn't as strong as Marion, but they're similar in size. The size of centers and forwards has been steadily declining as the game is evolving into an up-tempo style of play. The guy isn't an ideal 4 obviously, but he can play that position. Playing a zone would help compensate for his defensive shortcomings. You said Green is more NBA-ready, and I disagree. Brewer's strong defense makes him better from the start imo.
[quote name='Living_Legend33' post='380359' date='Jun 14 2007, 05:59 PM']Dirk may be a better rebounder and a few inches taller, but he's just as bad defensively. Offensively he's always on the perimeter as well, meaning he doesn't play inside that much, just like Lewis. Their games are similar.[/quote] Dirk also plays the mid-range game beautifully, he does take it to the basket, and not only is he taller than Lewis but he is more built like a big man. Lewis is strictly a 3, IMO. I'm not changing my opinion about that, and I'm sure Seattle fans would tell you he's not a 4. Can he play a few minutes per game at the 4 when we go small, depending on the matchups? Yes, but a starting 4? No way. It's not about the weight, it's about the build and the style of play. Marion is also able to defend 4's and he's very versatile. His game is much different than Lewis'. They may weigh the same, but Marion is stronger and he is able to play the 4 (although, yes, he is a natural 3). We could play some zone, but teams would certainly figure it out and work around it, and we'd get murdered on the perimeter. When you have athletes like Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Al Jefferson, etc. zone isn't the best fit for them... also, if you want to be a running team, it's much tougher to succeed with a zone. I'm not saying Brewer can't contribute right away, he certainly can, but Jeff Green is undoubtedly more NBA ready. Brewer is an excellent 1-on-1 defender and a great athlete, but he has an inconsistent shot, he's a pretty bad ball handler, and he needs to add weight. Jeff Green has a much better body, he's bigger, he can play the 3 or 4, he's a much better ball handler, a great passing forward, he makes good defensive rotations, and he attack 18 feet in. He needs to extend his range, but he is a lot more NBA ready that Brewer at this point, without question, IMO.
It seems that every player that is in a contract year is going to Boston. These rumours are just ridiculous, I knew they werent going to make any moves at the trade deadline, and I am skeptical if they will make a blockbuster this offseason.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jun 14 2007, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It seems that every player that is in a contract year is going to Boston. These rumours are just ridiculous, I knew they werent going to make any moves at the trade deadline, and I am skeptical if they will make a blockbuster this offseason.</div>And this is why I don't why a trade thread/forum.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Jun 14 2007, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And this is why I don't why a trade thread/forum.</div>Yeah it would get pretty bad. But a team trade thread...for trades that might actually happen..will be nice. I made a Griz trade thread and we arent going nuts with it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BluffCityBlue @ Jun 14 2007, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah it would get pretty bad. But a team trade thread...for trades that might actually happen..will be nice. I made a Griz trade thread and we arent going nuts with it.</div>I'm just sick of being bombarded with 5-10 new trade threads everyday. We all know that maybe 1 or 2 important trades will happen this off-season, maybe more if it's a busy season. It seems even worse than last year, because everyone's making these dumb threads that make the Lakers and Celtics become championship contenders.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Jun 15 2007, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm just sick of being bombarded with 5-10 new trade threads everyday. We all know that maybe 1 or 2 important trades will happen this off-season, maybe more if it's a busy season. It seems even worse than last year, because everyone's making these dumb threads that make the Lakers and Celtics become championship contenders.</div>sooooooooo you'd rather discuss the exciting and competitive finals?most of the Celtic trade rumors have been mentioned by the media, so they are not without some substance. Of course most will not happen, but if there is a possibility, is it not the point of these type of forums for fans to discuss the possibilities?and sure as sh*t, there's gonna be some nuthuggers on here making it sound better than it is.but hey, it happens deal with it.
Justice, if you were a fan of a team in the Celtics' situation, you'd be talking about some trade possibilities too. Imagine being a fan of a team that hasn't sniffed the playoffs in 2 years, has 90% of their players injured on and off all year long, has the 2nd worst record but gets the 5th pick in the lottery, signs one of the worst NBA coaches to an extension, a star player pleading for veterans, and not knowing what will happen this offseason or which players will be dealt. The Celtics are a clusterfuck right now, and we need to make changes/noise. It's only natural for fans of sucky teams to discuss this type of stuff in the offseason... especially with the draft being 2 weeks away.
