Yup. First to Turner Meyers and a 2nd for someone like Langston Galloway? Then Galloway for Patrick Patterson and then stretch PP. Thats save about $29.5M in salary.
No, I've already said this multiple times. The timing for free agent signings would be very difficult to attach a 1st to Turner by the time we could still sign free agents. Now we are throwing Leonard traded for someone who is then traded for someone else? It's fun to play GM but it's just not going to go down like that.
Olshey has proven more than once to be quite crafty when dealing with less than all star caliber maneuvers.
You aren't getting it. No team can take Turner at the draft. No team will want to waste cap space at the beginning of free agency for Turner. This means we wouldn't be able to trade Turner until at the very minimum a week into free agency. Guys like Kanter, Hood, and Curry aren't going to just sit around and wait HOPING in a week some team might take Turner and then Olshey could pull off a double trade with Meyers. This is completely different than a restricted free agent with a low cap hold that we promise to pay once we sign others. Take Kanter, if he wasn't getting offers a week into free agency we'd likely just be able to get him on a one year deal for the $5.3 million anyway. So even after all that it still simply comes down to whether or not he wants to stay here for that little.
No, I get you. It wont be easy at all. But im not sure we cant find a team to take Turner and/or Meyers and a pick or two for a player or two in return who we can THEN dump to other teams for mostly cap space. Or something along those lines. I think Olshey is crafy behind closed doors. I think he is also a great car salesman, for better or worse, right now that is the style we need. To sell Kanter on the fact that we want him long term and will pay him next year, but he needs to help us keep the team together. I think @magnifier661 is right that we need to get to the WFC though for this team to feel confident enough to want to keep it together. Hood is another who is finding new life here and might do the same. For all the Olshey hate, and some of it is because of him being a car salesman type, this is where he shines in my opinion. He knows the cap very well, even withstanding the inflated signings of Meyers and Turner(close to market contracts that year, imo). Each year since, he has manuevered the line like a catwalk without falling. I actually think he will figure it out some how some way, so that next year we have Kanter and Hood on the roster along with CJ, Hark, Aminu, Dame, Nurk, Collins, and Ant. I think all others are expendable and could possibly be used to make all of this happen. I know its a long shot, but I think if there are guys who can maneuver this tightrope, its Olshey. He has his faults, no doubt. But this is where his strengths are.
No, you still don't get it even though you say you do. I've been known as an Olshey apologist in the past. This is nothing to do with his skill as a GM. What you are suggesting doesn't free up enough money. Yes, there are subtle moves to improve our cap situation but this particular summer needs more than just a couple minor moves to free up money. Besides if we trade all our expiring contracts it also closes the door on getting a true difference maker via trade.
You say not enough money. I say it depends on what they are willing to take for a year and how well Olshey can sell them on getting paid in the following year.
OB, I'm not saying those guys are gone. I've actually said the opposite that I think Kanter and Hood might be back. What you are saying is technically against the CBA rules, even though it does likely occur all the time. There is a difference between those guys being willing to accept one year deals and making a bunch of trades to free up money to pay them more this summer. Lets not mix the two.
Hey, Im not CBA buff. That's why I have guys like you. LOL. Set me straight. Im just saying, I think some how, some way, we will have them back next year if we make the WFC.
Yes, I somewhat agree with you but that is a different statement than believing we will pull off a bunch of miracle trades to save our summer.
Im not going to say its impossible for Olshey to be creative enough to make it work: Meyers for Galloway makes sense both ways. Galloway for Patterson makes sense both ways. Thats not all that unrealistic if you maybe throw a 2nd round pick and some cash in each. The problem is trading Turner. Maybe you can convince a team like Atlanta to trade Miles Plumlee and a min. Contract and one of their 2nd round picks for Turner and our 2019 1st. By waiving and stretching Patterson and Plumlee, we'd save apx. $24M total, leaving about $6M of cap space. When July hits, maybe Atlanta would do Prince for Harkless and a 1st. Thatd leave us with apx. $14M in cap space (accounting for 2 cap holds) Kanter for $8.5M, Hood for $6.5M (one hold erased), and then Layman with the room exception. Obviously thats a pipedream and a long series of moves but Im not going to say its impossible to clear space. Any series of moves like that gives us a chance.
Why give up all those picks to stretch players when we can stretch the ones we have already? Meyers stretched is a $3.75million hit for three years, Patterson is $1.9million Turner would be $6.2million hit, Plumlee $4.2million. So we basically drop two picks to get rid of $3.8million. I don't think it's worth the hassle.
Bones, I think you're letting your wish for this to happen cloud your judgement on trades. Why would Meyers for Galloway make sense for Detroit? Meyers makes more money. They already have their version of Meyers making about the same money in Leuer. Galloway, while not great, plays a position where they actually need depth at. Even if you pulled that first move off, I don't see OKC adding to their enormous payroll (they're already over the tax line) just to exchange crappy players. The rest of what you're saying would be a disaster. You'd lose two starters (Aminu and Harkless) and two 1st round picks for Prince and the ability to maybe re-sign Kanter and Hood? Plus the real kicker is that our cap situation would be even more fucked over the next 3 years with the addition of even more dead money on the books. Then on top of all that we lose all our expirings and two draft picks in which we could've possibly used to acquire someone worthwhile by the deadline next year. All so we can give Kanter and Hood a couple extra million? No thanks.
you're fighting the good fight hoopsjock, but pipe dreams are a moving target * first of all, can we please dispense with the idea that somehow, Portland could trade both ET and Meyers and not take any salary back? And by any, I mean substantial. And can we also stop thinking that somehow, Portland could trade both players by only attaching one first round pick?. For chrissakes, ET has been horrible in the playoffs and Meyers isn't playing. Those two have substantial negative value * Portland is scheduled for over 127M in guaranteed & dead salary right now if I'm reading the numbers right. That's for 10 players. And, the cap-holds for Aminu, Hood, Curry, Kanter, and Layman are around 24M. Aminu's cap-hold alone is 13.2M * even if by some ridiculous miracle Portland dumped ET and Meyers for no salary, they would still be over the cap with just Aminu's cap-hold. Portland will not have cap-space this summer...that's pretty clear so all of this fictional maneuvering is just for the difference between the tax-MLE and the full-MLE. That's about 3.5M. Almost every trade idea I see isn't worth that minor gain The biggest question is still the same IMO: how much tax is Jody Allen willing to pay next year
Jody was at the last two games (and I believe she's been at every home game in the playoffs so far). I gotta say, it really looks like she's getting wrapped up in Blazer Mania. At the very least she saw and heard first hand how much this city supports their team. In the 4OT game she was standing and going crazy like all of us fans through most of the overtimes. During the timeouts she was up clapping too. What does this mean? It might mean nothing. Heck, maybe she just wanted to do whatever it took this season to honor Paul and once the season ends she'll move on to trying to sell the team or not wanting to pay the tax. It could also be that I witnessed her fall in love with the Blazers and just maybe she became a fan. One can hope right?
I noticed her attendance and nothing about that is a bad sign...all good. But even if she's a fan now and willing to ride out owning the Blazers for a few years, she might not have as big a stomach for tax-paying as Paul did so (check my math), it is the best of all possible free agent worlds...Aminu re-signs for 9M 1st year; Kanter re-signs for 5.5 tax-MLE; Hood re-signs for 4.1M non-Bird; Curry re-signs for 3.4M non-Bird. Blazers are now 17M over the tax-line and the only remaining question is Layman or the 1st round pick. Say Layman for 3M (too low?). 20M over the line which yields a 45M tax bill....yikes! I just can't see how she'd OK that, no matter how much she loves the Blazers now. I guess maybe as a one-off is the Blazers make it to the WC finals and give the Warriors a good fight, but even then IMO, the Blazers don't need that 25th pick. They don't need another Simons or Trent or Skal that petrify on the bench. I don't believe the first would be enough to more ET but it could be enough to move Meyers, maybe with no salary coming back. That would carve about 28M of that 45M away, but the timing of the draft is way off in relation to off-season cap-space
What's more likely is trading a 2020 1st to get rid of one of them based on the timing. Even if it's Meyers, that would make them roughly $10 million into the tax (going off your numbers). That's not too crazy. Besides they'd still have until the trade deadline next year to reduce that number further. That's where trades like the ones @BonesJones suggested might come into play where we trade a Turner for someone just as crappy but making a couple million less. The best case scenario doesn't have to automatically default to the worst case tax-wise.
I'd rather swap Turner out over Meyers. With Nurk being out half the year, having depth at C is a good thing. Even if it's something like ET + Pick -> Dellavedova ($9.6M expiring contract). We still dump $10M, but arguably have a better roster fit.
