That series was pathetic. LeBron is not the best player in the NBA, he is not even top 5. Kobe is by far number 1, then you got guys around like Dwayne Wade, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Steve Nash, ect... I think LeBron is really overrated, sorry. Yeah he got the team to the Finals, but it really was an easy road, besides Detroit, getting past the Arenasless Wizards, and the Nets weren't something to throw your arms in the air about. LeBron is not MJ, LeBron is not Kobe. I'm sick of people saying wait until he is Kobe's age, he will be better, no he won't. Kobe at age 22, 3 NBA Championships, LeBron at age 22, 0-4 NBA Finals record.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Jun 16 2007, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That series was pathetic. LeBron is not the best player in the NBA, he is not even top 5. Kobe is by far number 1, then you got guys around like Dwayne Wade, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Steve Nash, ect... I think LeBron is really overrated, sorry. Yeah he got the team to the Finals, but it really was an easy road, besides Detroit, getting past the Arenasless Wizards, and the Nets weren't something to throw your arms in the air about. LeBron is not MJ, LeBron is not Kobe. I'm sick of people saying wait until he is Kobe's age, he will be better, no he won't. Kobe at age 22, 3 NBA Championships, LeBron at age 22, 0-4 NBA Finals record.</div>Ok, so you say LeBron isn't a top player because he doesn't have a ring, yet Garnett and Nash have never even made the Finals. LeBron is a top 5 player. You can make arguments to put Wade and Duncan ahead of him, but LeBron has surpassed Garnett and Nash IMO. He does a little bit of everything Nash and Garnett do. He's not a better passer than Nash, but he's still a great passer, and he's not as good of a rebounder as Garnett, but still a great rebounder. LeBron's scoring surpasses Nash and Garnett's though. He has better leadership skills than Garnett, and you can argue his leadership skills are better than Nash's when you look at who all Nash has been able to play with compared to LeBron. All in all, LeBron is no doubt a top 5 player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jun 16 2007, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok, so you say LeBron isn't a top player because he doesn't have a ring, yet Garnett and Nash have never even made the Finals. LeBron is a top 5 player. You can make arguments to put Wade and Duncan ahead of him, but LeBron has surpassed Garnett and Nash IMO. He does a little bit of everything Nash and Garnett do. He's not a better passer than Nash, but he's still a great passer, and he's not as good of a rebounder as Garnett, but still a great rebounder. LeBron's scoring surpasses Nash and Garnett's though. He has better leadership skills than Garnett, and you can argue his leadership skills are better than Nash's when you look at who all Nash has been able to play with compared to LeBron. All in all, LeBron is no doubt a top 5 player.</div>The best players make their teammates around them better. Nash has made a few people on Phoenix better, but has LeBron seriously made anyone around him better? Before we put LBJ into elite company, he's got to develop a consistent perimeter game and a consistent jumper. I mean, this guy can be absolutely lights out from 3 point range and shooting the jumper one night and then be absolutely flat and the team accomplishes absolutely nothing the next. Consistency is a common variable in the NBA's best and that's something LeBron doesn't have right now. LeBron got to the Finals, woopdedoo, but do realize this was one of the worst conferences in NBA history that he so called 'dominated'.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Jun 16 2007, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe at age 22, 3 NBA Championships, LeBron at age 22, 0-4 NBA Finals record.</div>How can you even compare the two like that? Kobe had SHAQ, Big Fella; he was the most dominant center in the game for those 3 titles. Who did LeBron have? Larry Hughes could barely walk, and Ilgauskas isn't the best...All the Cavs need is to get more talent around him; they've learned their lesson this series.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The best players make their teammates around them better. Nash has made a few people on Phoenix better, but has LeBron seriously made anyone around him better?</div>Ok, well if you want to play that game, who has Kobe made better on the Lakers? Who has Garnett made better on the T'Wolves? Lets not forget, with the help of LeBron, Gibson emerged in the playoffs and became a big factor in the Cavs beating the Pistons.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Before we put LBJ into elite company, he's got to develop a consistent perimeter game and a consistent jumper. I mean, this guy can be absolutely lights out from 3 point range and shooting the jumper one night and then be absolutely flat and the team accomplishes absolutely nothing the next. Consistency is a common variable in the NBA's best and that's something LeBron doesn't have right now.</div>That you are right about, and it will come given time. But, he also has the skills to get into the lane when his jumper isn't falling.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>LeBron got to the Finals, woopdedoo, but do realize this was one of the worst conferences in NBA history that he so called 'dominated'.</div>That's true, but you can't overlook the fact that they beat one of the better teams in the NBA in the Eastern Conference Finals.
Give LeBron James Shaq.. He'll end up with more championships with Kobe Bryant. Overrated? Hold on, let me get the type of Game 5 against Detroit, I know he isn't "clutch", right? What a joke. LeBron not top 5 in the league? Thanks for the great laugh.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CavsRules @ Jun 16 2007, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Give LeBron James Shaq.. He'll end up with more championships with Kobe Bryant. Overrated? Hold on, let me get the type of Game 5 against Detroit, I know he isn't "clutch", right? What a joke. LeBron not top 5 in the league? Thanks for the great laugh.</div>That's exactly it. Cav fans keep referring to that game 5. It was a great game, don't get me wrong, but just let it go. My goodness. Just because you score 50 in a playoff game doesn't mean you are on top of the world.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>That's true, but you can't overlook the fact that they beat one of the better teams in the NBA in the Eastern Conference Finals.</div>The Pistons are a great team and it does give the Cavs / LeBron some credibility, but in my opinion, the Cavs didn't see the best of the Pistons. Tayshaun struggled all series, Billups made some rare mental mistakes, and Sheed wasn't as consistent as he usually is. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Ok, well if you want to play that game, who has Kobe made better on the Lakers? Who has Garnett made better on the T'Wolves? Lets not forget, with the help of LeBron, Gibson emerged in the playoffs and became a big factor in the Cavs beating the Pistons.</div>Eh, good point. Kobe does consistently carry the team though, but yeah, I can't say he's made anyone better. Garnett has no credibility to that regard as well. Regarding Gibson, I'm not sold on LeBron being the reason why he emerged. If I remember correctly, LeBron was on the bench during much of his breakout streaks so I don't think LeBron really created anything for him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Regarding Gibson, I'm not sold on LeBron being the reason why he emerged. If I remember correctly, LeBron was on the bench during much of his breakout streaks so I don't think LeBron really created anything for him.</div>Yeah, but behind the scenes it's LeBron who has been encouraging him to keep shooting and has had faith in him, or so I have read.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jun 16 2007, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, but behind the scenes it's LeBron who has been encouraging him to keep shooting and has had faith in him, or so I have read.</div>That wouldn't put him in the classification as an NBA great though. I mean, look, Eric Snow is the one that encouraged the team before their run in Game 4. It's what a team leader is supposed to do.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's exactly it. Cav fans keep referring to that game 5. It was a great game, don't get me wrong, but just let it go. My goodness. Just because you score 50 in a playoff game doesn't mean you are on top of the world.</div>Let it go? It happened not to long ago, why forget about it? That makes no sense at all, IMO. I didn't say he was on top of the world... But people keep on saying hes overrated, isn't clutch, and can't compare him to Drama Queen Kobe, and Jordan. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Regarding Gibson, I'm not sold on LeBron being the reason why he emerged. If I remember correctly, LeBron was on the bench during much of his breakout streaks so I don't think LeBron really created anything for him.</div>LeBron James was on the court for 5 of his 6 3-pointers in Game 6. LeBron makes all of his teammates better, but they aren't NBA Players. They are scrubs. I could go out and hit wide open J's, all day. Unlike these players. If you ever sat down and actually watched the Cavaliers play, you'd understand what I'm saying.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CavsRules @ Jun 16 2007, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Let it go? It happened not to long ago, why forget about it? That makes no sense at all, IMO. I didn't say he was on top of the world... But people keep on saying hes overrated, isn't clutch, and can't compare him to Drama Queen Kobe, and Jordan. LeBron James was on the court for 5 of his 6 3-pointers in Game 6. LeBron makes all of his teammates better, but they aren't NBA Players. They are scrubs. I could go out and hit wide open J's, all day. Unlike these players. If you ever sat down and actually watched the Cavaliers play, you'd understand what I'm saying.</div>So what if it didn't happen long ago. 1 Great game doesn't put you into elite company automatically. You know Gilbert Arenas wouldn't be getting near the credibility that LeBron got if he put up the same exact numbers. 50 points in one game isn't going to prove you're clutch. He choked in Game 3 of the Finals by shooting such a low percentage shot (and don't give me the excuse that he got fouled, I know he did, but never should he have relied on the refs and through up a prayer) then he's going to pass to Donyell at the beginning of the Conference Finals. LeBron usually misses a good percentage of his 'clutch' free throws and that's not going to get you above MJ anytime soon. Quit blaming the people around him. Gooden is a good player and every time he shoots from the short corner, he makes it. Why is it that they don't run that play more often, I don't know. Gibson and Pavlovic are solid players as well and Z is still good on the boards. I'd say his supporting cast is just as good as Kobe's in LA. The problem is the players start to stare and watch any and every time LeBron starts to get hot and quit running a real offense. That is something that happened throughout MJ's career as well. If they'd actually run a consistent offense, maybe the supporting crew could actually be consistent threats at whatever they specialize in.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That wouldn't put him in the classification as an NBA great though. I mean, look, Eric Snow is the one that encouraged the team before their run in Game 4. It's what a team leader is supposed to do.</div>I was just saying that contributes a little to Gibson's success. It shows LeBron has atleast some leadership.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Jun 16 2007, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That series was pathetic. LeBron is not the best player in the NBA, he is not even top 5. Kobe is by far number 1, then you got guys around like Dwayne Wade, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Steve Nash, ect... I think LeBron is really overrated, sorry. Yeah he got the team to the Finals, but it really was an easy road, besides Detroit, getting past the Arenasless Wizards, and the Nets weren't something to throw your arms in the air about. LeBron is not MJ, LeBron is not Kobe. I'm sick of people saying wait until he is Kobe's age, he will be better, no he won't. Kobe at age 22, 3 NBA Championships, LeBron at age 22, 0-4 NBA Finals record.</div>Man your up there with PFF as one of the most retarded people on this forum.Garnett and Nash = 0 rings together, guess there both overated too ehh? LeBron is inconsistant, yes, but he will develop consistancy as his career progresses. Dwyane Wade never even takes any outside shots, and at an early age, Michael Jordan was inconsistant from long range - so I dont even want to hear that crap. He really cannot make it any easier for his teammates to succeed, but they couldn't hit anything. There offense was just dreadful, LeBron gets double, triple teamed and finds the open man.. yet the guy misses the open shot. Then you say its all LeBrons fault? Comparing Kobe/LeBron at age 22 is just.. terrible.. You give LeBron Shaquille O'Neil RIGHT NOW, and I guarentee he would lead to more wins, and take so much of the load off of LeBron James..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The problem is the players start to stare and watch any and every time LeBron starts to get hot and quit running a real offense. That is something that happened throughout MJ's career as well. If they'd actually run a consistent offense, maybe the supporting crew could actually be consistent threats at whatever they specialize in.</div>You have to put that blame on Mike Brown, not LeBron. People underrate coaching sometimes. Jordan and Bryant have both had Phil Jackson, who knows how to run a successful offense, while James has Mike Brown, who has no clue what he is doing on offense.
Mike Brown is a good defensive coach, but without an offense.. you will get nowhere. I think Cleveland needs to make some big moves; bringing in another coach to work with Mike Brown, that can install some type of offense into there system and they need to bring in some guys that can just hit OPEN SHOTS. Jesus..there in the NBA and 95% of there roster can't hit an open shot from the free throw line.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingjamez @ Jun 16 2007, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dwyane Wade never even takes any outside shots</div>Because maybe he knows the outside shot is not his game and it is low percentage for him right now in his career. LeBron should know that he isn't too hot from downtown so he should use some decision making and make it a habit of going to the rim more often. In a couple of games during the playoffs LeBron put up around 25 points, but put up 20+ shots. That's a very low percentage and he should adapt to that and attack the rim and take the higher percentage shot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jun 16 2007, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You have to put that blame on Mike Brown, not LeBron. People underrate coaching sometimes. Jordan and Bryant have both had Phil Jackson, who knows how to run a successful offense, while James has Mike Brown, who has no clue what he is doing on offense.</div>Like I said, MJ's supporting cast did the same thing as far as just watching Jordan play and not running any set plays or anything. Who was his coach? Phil Jackson. They did it under Jackson, too, and are we saying Jackson is a bad coach these days, um no.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So what if it didn't happen long ago. 1 Great game doesn't put you into elite company automatically. You know Gilbert Arenas wouldn't be getting near the credibility that LeBron got if he put up the same exact numbers. 50 points in one game isn't going to prove you're clutch. He choked in Game 3 of the Finals by shooting such a low percentage shot (and don't give me the excuse that he got fouled, I know he did, but never should he have relied on the refs and through up a prayer) then he's going to pass to Donyell at the beginning of the Conference Finals. LeBron usually misses a good percentage of his 'clutch' free throws and that's not going to get you above MJ anytime soon.</div>Wait... Who's comparing him to Jordan? Or Kobe? I know I'm not, I'm just trying to prove my point that LeBron is easily top 3 in the NBA. Which KB24 seems to be high and thinks otherwise. I'm not saying he should be called God for one great game, I brought that game up because everyone seems to bash him for not hitting big shots. Well, hows 29 of you're teams last 30? Good enough? Oh wait, now that he did something great we have to move past it? I don't understand, if he missed a lot of big shots in that game, you would be eating those stats alive right now. But no, it's the other way around so we all have to move past it. Doesn't make sense to me. LeBron was fouled, and he ALMOST made a deep, deep 3 to tie the game. He got pushed, nothing else you can do. The Spurs were aiming to foul him at the start, so the Ref should've called a freaking foul. I believe thats what he gets paid to do, correct?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Quit blaming the people around him. Gooden is a good player and every time he shoots from the short corner, he makes it. Why is it that they don't run that play more often, I don't know. Gibson and Pavlovic are solid players as well and Z is still good on the boards. I'd say his supporting cast is just as good as Kobe's in LA. The problem is the players start to stare and watch any and every time LeBron starts to get hot and quit running a real offense. That is something that happened throughout MJ's career as well. If they'd actually run a consistent offense, maybe the supporting crew could actually be consistent threats at whatever they specialize in.</div>Now, I know you haven't watched many Cavalier games. :HAHAHA: :HAHAHA: Gooden makes it every time, LMFAO! That a complete joke? Sometimes he shoots 6/7, or whatever and has a great game. But normally, Gooden is shooting horrible. I'm honestly shocked he stepped in and knocked down those shots. We don't run plays on offense, but I can't blame Mike Brown for that, because it's LeBron's fault.. right? Sasha was never that "good" player you're talking about. I've seen this guy play, he is an alright shooter, but nothing more. LeBron James told everyone to not give up on him, and Sasha worked harder and now hes a lot better. Same goes for Gibson, LeBron told the rook to shoot and thats exactly that the rookie did. Shoot. Once again, LeBron James helped Gibson find the way. Z is worthless unless he is shooting that 18-footer, please, don't start with him. I love the guy, but he tries to work down-low and he never scores. Not really, every time LeBron has the ball the team normally just sits and stars at him regardless if he is hot, or not. Take it from a guy that has watched this cast for years, and that was watched every game of LeBron James since he started out as a rookie. This supporting cast, of LeBron's. Isn't going to bring a title to Cleveland, LeBron had 3-4 guys on him whenever he was going into the paint, but he had no help. No one could hit a wide open shot, not one person. Hell, Game 4 Marshall air-balled a wide open three.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said, MJ's supporting cast did the same thing as far as just watching Jordan play and not running any set plays or anything. Who was his coach? Phil Jackson. They did it under Jackson, too, and are we saying Jackson is a bad coach these days, um no.</div>I don't get why you're talking about Jordan's cast. He had one of the best players in the game, in Pippen. Top 50 players of all-time, and Bryant had Shaq. But...Yeah, who does LeBron James have? Larry Hughes? As much as I love the guy, hes no Pippen, and hes def. no Shaq.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kadillak @ Jun 16 2007, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Because maybe he knows the outside shot is not his game and it is low percentage for him right now in his career. LeBron should know that he isn't too hot from downtown so he should use some decision making and make it a habit of going to the rim more often. In a couple of games during the playoffs LeBron put up around 25 points, but put up 20+ shots. That's a very low percentage and he should adapt to that and attack the rim and take the higher percentage shot.</div>I agree that LeBron should take it to the rim more, but the it's not like the guy gets any calls. He isn't D-Wade where he steps into the paint and the refs are already to blow. James needs to work on his mid-range game this off-season, because I'm sure he'll get it done sooner or later.
