Haha, Primetime, what a dick coming at me with all those stats. Stats mean next to nothing.Shaq was dominated in his first couple years by more experienced centers
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Haha, Primetime, what a dick coming at me with all those stats. Stats mean next to nothing.Shaq was dominated in his first couple years by more experienced centers</div>Shaq led his team to the finals in 1995. 3 years after being drafted. I hardly call that being dominated.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 18 2007, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oden played above average defensively in college but he is still raw. I wouldnt expect him to be a dominant defensive player from the start. He may get some solid blocks but I think he will have a similar rookie season to Emeka. I dont think they will move Randolph honestly. It's a possibility though.</div>He won't be "dominant" defensively as in Ben Wallace and Marcus Camby....but I think he will be a force on the other end. And he wasn't just above average in college. He was probably the best big man defender in the NCAA's, and he was only a freshman. I think he'll probably have more production on both ends than Emeka.They don't need him anymore, and his contract is just too big. His style of play doesn't suit an emerging team either. He's a lazy ***hole who doesn't leave his feet at all on defense. He doesn't try ast all, and he is also very selfish on the other end. They may as well get rid of him since he has semi-star status written on him now....they could get some decent offers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Haha, Primetime, what a dick coming at me with all those stats. Stats mean next to nothing.Shaq was dominated in his first couple years by more experienced centers</div>Don't try to argue with it. That was the most retarded post I've ever seen.Shaq is the best current NBA example of dominating since day one...Averaging 29 ppg as a center isn't dominate enough for you?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jun 18 2007, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He won't be "dominant" defensively as in Ben Wallace and Marcus Camby....but I think he will be a force on the other end. And he wasn't just above average in college. He was probably the best big man defender in the NCAA's, and he was only a freshman. I think he'll probably have more production on both ends than Emeka.They don't need him anymore, and his contract is just too big. His style of play doesn't suit an emerging team either. He's a lazy ***hole who doesn't leave his feet at all on defense. He doesn't try ast all, and he is also very selfish on the other end. They may as well get rid of him since he has semi-star status written on him now....they could get some decent offers.</div>I dont know if you've watched the blazers the last few years but it isnt just randolph who plays terrible defense. I think Nate will get him to play D this year and he has something to play for now. Hell even Nate got seattle into the playoffs so im sure he could work with randolph. Randolph will have a much better season next year, I dont even think hes as bad defensively as most people think. Hes at least as good defensively as shaq is right now, thats not saying alot but at the same time hes at least average defensively. In terms of a rookie performance Oden will likely be very similar to Emeka although hopefully not injured as often IE tall,rebounder,good man defense, etc.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh, so you're saying Lebron is a dominant NBA player now?</div>Obviously he is. Anyone who caught a glimpse of the ECF will agree to that much.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 18 2007, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dont know if you've watched the blazers the last few years but it isnt just randolph who plays terrible defense. I think Nate will get him to play D this year and he has something to play for now. Hell even Nate got seattle into the playoffs so im sure he could work with randolph. Randolph will have a much better season next year, I dont even think hes as bad defensively as most people think. Hes at least as good defensively as shaq is right now, thats not saying alot but at the same time hes at least average defensively. In terms of a rookie performance Oden will likely be very similar to Emeka although hopefully not injured as often IE tall,rebounder,good man defense, etc.</div>You can't really coach work ethic or defense. Zach is lazy and a below average defender. Like I said, LaMarcus is emerging, and Greg Oden will be a superstar. They also have guys like Jamaal Magloire and Joel Przybilla. They don't need lazy Zach, and his huge contract. May as well get rid of him.Anyway, I'm done arguing about this. It's just dumb...It's my opinion. Take it or leave it. We're not getting anywhere with this debate.
ugghh, yes he had a great ECF, but he was swept by the Spurs, I mean if he were that dominant he would've been able to win at least one game
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ugghh, yes he had a great ECF, but he was swept by the Spurs, I mean if he were that dominant he would've been able to win at least one game</div>Lebron is the 2nd or 3rd best player in the League. He averaged 27, 7 and 6 last year. Of course he's dominant. Are you retarded?It takes a great team to be able to beat the Spurs. Lebron doesn't have a great team, and the Spurs were unstoppable the entire playoffs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jun 18 2007, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron is the 2nd or 3rd best player in the League. He averaged 27, 7 and 6 last year. Of course he's dominant. Are you retarded?It takes a great team to be able to beat the Spurs. Lebron doesn't have a great team, and the Spurs were unstoppable the entire playoffs.</div>Couldnt have said it better. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jun 18 2007, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He won't be "dominant" defensively as in Ben Wallace and Marcus Camby....but I think he will be a force on the other end. And he wasn't just above average in college. He was probably the best big man defender in the NCAA's, and he was only a freshman. I think he'll probably have more production on both ends than Emeka.They don't need him anymore, and his contract is just too big. His style of play doesn't suit an emerging team either. He's a lazy ***hole who doesn't leave his feet at all on defense. He doesn't try ast all, and he is also very selfish on the other end. They may as well get rid of him since he has semi-star status written on him now....they could get some decent offers.</div> coaches do teach work ethic btw. Its up to the player to have the willingness. I think Randolph will be hyped that he will have a dominant player like Oden to play with. Your talking about a team who has been the worst in the NBA the last 3-4 years. Most players dont play hard when your team cant even manage a 30 win season. Randolph is a very good talent though if they do trade him he will be missed. If I were the Blazers id keep him for a year, make a playoff run, then trade him because im not sold on Aldridge being able to be a fulltime starter as of yet and depth never hurts a team.
Ugghh, Primetime, you are so caught up in the 90s and CB4, you are so in the moment it's so hard ot debate with you guys about the course of time
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ugghh, Primetime, you are so caught up in the 90s and CB4, you are so in the moment it's so hard ot debate with you guys about the course of time</div>Ive said nothing is this topic about the 90s except when you said that Shaq wasnt any good until his 7th year in the NBA. I only speak of the 90s when its relevent, when you mention a young shaq it becomes relevent.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ugghh, Primetime, you are so caught up in the 90s and CB4, you are so in the moment it's so hard ot debate with you guys about the course of time</div>A debate? Are you joking me? You're arguing that Lebron isn't dominate and Shaq wasn't dominate when he was averaging 29 and 12...This is not what an intelligent person would call a debate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 18 2007, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Couldnt have said it better. coaches do teach work ethic btw. Its up to the player to have the willingness. I think Randolph will be hyped that he will have a dominant player like Oden to play with. Your talking about a team who has been the worst in the NBA the last 3-4 years. Most players dont play hard when your team cant even manage a 30 win season. Randolph is a very good talent though if they do trade him he will be missed. If I were the Blazers id keep him for a year, make a playoff run, then trade him because im not sold on Aldridge being able to be a fulltime starter as of yet and depth never hurts a team.</div>You either have the drive to excel and get better, or you don't. You can't teach effort, it's something that you either have or you don't. Yeah, but I'm telling you, they don't need Randolph anymore. Brandon Roy is going to be a great all around guard and a 22, 5, and 4 guy...LaMarcus is going to become a very good player....Randolph is too lazy and selfish...I don't know why they would want him, because they'll probably be better longterm if they just rid themselves of him.They could keep him for one more year, but what's the point? It would just delay the developments of Oden and Aldridge...No point in doing that if he isn't in your long term plans anyway.
Look, PrimetimeHakeem, D-Rob, Ewing, even Mourning - those guys were all putting up similar stats to Shaq, and they were all winning similar numbers of games. To be dominating you have to regularly outplay your opponets, which was not the case since other centers were playing on a similar level of Shaq. Shaq was great, yes. But was he dominant? No!
You don't have to be the best at your position to be dominate...And at that point, there could be an argument that Shaq WAS better than those guys...maybe not Hakeem, but still...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Look, PrimetimeHakeem, D-Rob, Ewing, even Mourning - those guys were all putting up similar stats to Shaq, and they were all winning similar numbers of games. To be dominating you have to regularly outplay your opponets, which was not the case since other centers were playing on a similar level of Shaq. Shaq was great, yes. But was he dominant? No!</div>You act like they weren't dropping 30-40 points in games...You're talking about some of the best big men of the '90s here. If you can drop that many points at a good clip on top of grabbing 10-15 rebounds and 3+ blocks you sound pretty dominant to me. If you would have put Hakeem and Shaq against each other, and both got 30 and 15 in that game, it still sounds to me like they dominated in the game. They might not have dominated each other in the sense that one performed better than the other, but they still dominated in the game as the great centers they were at the time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jun 18 2007, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Shaq was not a dominant player, who the hell is?</div>Good point BCB. There are many ways to define a dominate player, but in Shaq's case, averaging 29/12 a game as well as winning like 45-50 games a year is what I call dominating. Back to topic, I really don't see how Oden and Durant would not succeed with their teams. In Portland's case, Oden can immediately step in and take control of that team as the leader. He's got a great teammate in Brandon Roy who will soon be an All-Star, he's got a GM that's ready to build around him, and he's got a city that's not going to pressure him as much as other places. In Seattle's case, Durant fills in the void left by Rashard Lewis and won't have to take control of the offense with Ray Allen still there. The Sonics just need to worry about finding the right PG that can get KD the ball, as well as set up the offense. I just can't think of anything that would hold these two back from being solid players...it would be a whole different situation if both guys were going to teams that just were terrible and had no good teammates at all.
