<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jun 19 2007, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They give up over 100 points a game...</div>You can't score over 110 and hold teams under 95. If you could do that you'd be a 75-win team. The defense does need improving, but it's getting there. It'll be the same three teams at the top...Phoenix can make moves that can put them at the top or take them out of contention so I'm just going to wait until the offseason is over. I'll say Mavs now, although it seemed like they focused so much on beating San Antonio but they seem to have trouble against the run and gun teams. They need to fix that.
The Suns are a middle of the pack defensive team they aren't a solid defensive team but they aren't a bad one either, they are just average. Defensive effieciency (points scored per 100 possessions): 107.7 (13th)eFG% (combines both fg% and 3P% into 1 showing general shot % from the floor): 49.2 (12th)PPS (Points allowed / FGA): 1.19 (3rd)Although you may consider it one in the same I differentiate between the two but Phoenix's problem is not defense but rather defensive rebounding. They give up too many offensive rebounds that give the other teams more possessions and a chance for a high percentage shot. This is where their attention needs to be.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Diawsome @ Jun 19 2007, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Suns are a middle of the pack defensive team they aren't a solid defensive team but they aren't a bad one either, they are just average. Defensive effieciency (points scored per 100 possessions): 107.7 (13th)eFG% (combines both fg% and 3P% into 1 showing general shot % from the floor): 49.2 (12th)PPS (Points allowed / FGA): 1.19 (3rd)Although you may consider it one in the same I differentiate between the two but Phoenix's problem is not defense but rather defensive rebounding. They give up too many offensive rebounds that give the other teams more possessions and a chance for a high percentage shot. This is where their attention needs to be.</div>In the playoffs, when you play multiple games against the same team, weaknesses get exploited, and Nash and Nowitzki, 3 MVP's or not, are both big weaknesses defensively. The rest of the Mavs were better last year, they are on the right track, even with the loss to GS. The rest of the Suns are average.When your star players are bad defenders, you have problems.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 19 2007, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They will likely be going to Yao less and rather have more of an all around team effort. Right now Yao's problem is what he does before he gets into the move to score (aka HIGH TO numbers). JVG's offense forced it into Yao too much and forced T-Mac to have a massive load which included both scoring and making plays for everyone else every single time down the floor...both guys will have it easier and have less offensive pressure on them.</div>You could be right on that, and getting more balance will help, but if he improves his game, they would be better off going to him more, rather than less. Not necessarily to shoot it every time, but to work the ball through him. And yes, Yao definitely needs to work on his turnovers.McGrady is the guy that needs to shoot less. He scores a lot, but he shoots a worse percentage than just about anybody among the scoring leaders. The only guy behind him, Arenas, is launching 8 three pointers a game.Yao outscored him last year while taking 4 fewer shots per game. That is a big difference.If T-Mac shoots less, and everyone else on the team shoots more, they will be better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordanisoverrated @ Jun 19 2007, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In the playoffs, when you play multiple games against the same team, weaknesses get exploited, and Nash and Nowitzki, 3 MVP's or not, are both big weaknesses defensively. The rest of the Mavs were better last year, they are on the right track, even with the loss to GS. The rest of the Suns are average.When your star players are bad defenders, you have problems.</div>Nash doesn't hurt us defensively. There's always a guy we can put him on that can't score and he's a nice help defender. He more than makes up for it offensively. Amare and Marion are all-stars, not average and we have a nice group of role players.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordanisoverrated @ Jun 19 2007, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You could be right on that, and getting more balance will help, but if he improves his game, they would be better off going to him more, rather than less. Not necessarily to shoot it every time, but to work the ball through him. And yes, Yao definitely needs to work on his turnovers.McGrady is the guy that needs to shoot less. He scores a lot, but he shoots a worse percentage than just about anybody among the scoring leaders. The only guy behind him, Arenas, is launching 8 three pointers a game.Yao outscored him last year while taking 4 fewer shots per game. That is a big difference.If T-Mac shoots less, and everyone else on the team shoots more, they will be better.</div>Remember, T-Mac got to an awful start scoring 19PPG on 40% shooting through the first month and a half of season. When Yao was out for 32 games he averaged 30/6/5 on 45% shooting, led team to a 21-10 record (didn't play 1 game), and was playing at an MVP level. The team was 2-8 I believe without T-Mac, and 2-6 with Yao leading the way without T-Mac. Those numbers are very similar to how crappy the Rockets were without McGrady in 05/06. Early in 04/05 T-Mac was passive and they were below .500...when he started scoring 28PPG for the rest of the season they went on a huge hot streak and ended up 51-31. In other words, I am a very firm believer in T-Mac is where the offense should be directed at and ran through. He is still a top 3 scorer in the league IMO, and the previous 3 seasons he has shot so poorly due to JVG's offense and no PG who can carry some of the distributive assignements. He is the Rockets best player, and the team goes as far as he allows. I'd like to see his scoring up next season, and Yao's scoring down while assists up. With Adelman as coach, a guy who did wonders with Clyde Drexler, I feel T-Mac will be is a MUCH better offensive situation next year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 20 2007, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Remember, T-Mac got to an awful start scoring 19PPG on 40% shooting through the first month and a half of season. When Yao was out for 32 games he averaged 30/6/5 on 45% shooting, led team to a 21-10 record (didn't play 1 game), and was playing at an MVP level. The team was 2-8 I believe without T-Mac, and 2-6 with Yao leading the way without T-Mac. Those numbers are very similar to how crappy the Rockets were without McGrady in 05/06. Early in 04/05 T-Mac was passive and they were below .500...when he started scoring 28PPG for the rest of the season they went on a huge hot streak and ended up 51-31. In other words, I am a very firm believer in T-Mac is where the offense should be directed at and ran through. He is still a top 3 scorer in the league IMO, and the previous 3 seasons he has shot so poorly due to JVG's offense and no PG who can carry some of the distributive assignements. He is the Rockets best player, and the team goes as far as he allows. I'd like to see his scoring up next season, and Yao's scoring down while assists up. With Adelman as coach, a guy who did wonders with Clyde Drexler, I feel T-Mac will be is a MUCH better offensive situation next year.</div>I'm all for the Rockets doing well, but T-Mac has never shot the ball well over an extended period of time in his career. At some point you have to think about directing the offense elsewhere. Not entirely, but his career best is 45.7%. Drexler's worst years he shot around where T-Mac has shot for his career. Up until he got injured after the Blazers last trip to the finals, he was just under 50% for his career. That is a huge gap between him and T-Mac, who is a career 44% shooter.The only team to really do well with the primary scorer consistently shooting as poorly as McGrady is when Philly went to the finals with Iverson, and no one has ever won the title that way. You don't win games by missing shots. Look at the primary scorers for NBA champions.Yao's career worst is 49.8%, and he's at 52.3% for his career. That is a very large gap, and it means more points per possession when Yao gets the ball.Anyway, go Rockets. I'd love to see Adelman get that team going.
The Rockets seem to be trying to bring in more scorers to help McGrady. It seems like last season, no one else besides McGrady and Yao would hit many shots. McGrady has never had a great team around him. He always plays great in the playoffs, but he can only do so much, at some point, his team around him has to step up, and it's never happened. I think bringing in Rashard Lewis would help tremendously. McGrady would still be the focal point of the offense, but he would have another All-Star scorer to take a little bit more of the workload off of him. McGrady has never really had a true 3rd option on his team. And until he got to Houston, he had never had a true second option on his team. If the Rockets can find a good third option, I think T-Mac, and the whole team would benefit a lot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordanisoverrated @ Jun 20 2007, 02:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm all for the Rockets doing well, but T-Mac has never shot the ball well over an extended period of time in his career. At some point you have to think about directing the offense elsewhere. Not entirely, but his career best is 45.7%. Drexler's worst years he shot around where T-Mac has shot for his career. Up until he got injured after the Blazers last trip to the finals, he was just under 50% for his career. That is a huge gap between him and T-Mac, who is a career 44% shooter.The only team to really do well with the primary scorer consistently shooting as poorly as McGrady is when Philly went to the finals with Iverson, and no one has ever won the title that way. You don't win games by missing shots. Look at the primary scorers for NBA champions.Yao's career worst is 49.8%, and he's at 52.3% for his career. That is a very large gap, and it means more points per possession when Yao gets the ball.Anyway, go Rockets. I'd love to see Adelman get that team going.</div>Looking at just FG % means little as T-Mac historically has gotten to the FT line more than Drexler and hits between 1-2 more 3pt shots per game. Basically both will be in the low-mid 20FGA per game to score 26-32PPG, and ultimately that is what counts the most. And I don't see how that relates to Adelman making things easier for T-Mac at all. Yao's FG % also means little as in playoffs he is not reliable as a go-to guy(44% shooting, 5 TO's per game this year)nor will he take over a game for you. T-Mac may never shoot 47% or better, but he can do those 2 things, and can have a 50pt night to carry your team to a win. Yao having the ball makes my stomach churn due to his clumsiness and inability to do well against stronger, quicker players (Ben Wallace for instance). Next to Kobe, T-Mac is the best streak scorer in the game as when he gets hot, he is one of the best we have ever seen. He can score on anyone at any time, and he is the kind of player a team can rally behind.All I'm saying is that the team, for the past few seasons, has responded MUCH better with T-Mac as primary scoring option.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Jun 20 2007, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash doesn't hurt us defensively. There's always a guy we can put him on that can't score and he's a nice help defender. He more than makes up for it offensively. Amare and Marion are all-stars, not average and we have a nice group of role players.</div>"He more than makes up for it offensively."This is the attitude of the whole Suns organization, and has been for at least the last 20 years, and it is why they don't win. They think playing poor defense is acceptable.
My theory is, and will be, until proven wrong, is that these teams that like to run a fast paced offense and score over 110 points a game are good for the regular season, but once they get deep in the playoffs, they won't win. When you get deep, say the conference Finals, you will most likely be playing a good defensive team for 4-7 games, and when the fast paced teams aren't hitting their jumpers, they have no defense to rely on, and I think that's why the Suns haven't made the Finals yet.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 20 2007, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Looking at just FG % means little as T-Mac historically has gotten to the FT line more than Drexler and hits between 1-2 more 3pt shots per game. Basically both will be in the low-mid 20FGA per game to score 26-32PPG, and ultimately that is what counts the most. And I don't see how that relates to Adelman making things easier for T-Mac at all. Yao's FG % also means little as in playoffs he is not reliable as a go-to guy(44% shooting, 5 TO's per game this year)nor will he take over a game for you. T-Mac may never shoot 47% or better, but he can do those 2 things, and can have a 50pt night to carry your team to a win. Yao having the ball makes my stomach churn due to his clumsiness and inability to do well against stronger, quicker players (Ben Wallace for instance). Next to Kobe, T-Mac is the best streak scorer in the game as when he gets hot, he is one of the best we have ever seen. He can score on anyone at any time, and he is the kind of player a team can rally behind.All I'm saying is that the team, for the past few seasons, has responded MUCH better with T-Mac as primary scoring option.</div>If you don't like FG%, look at points scored per FG attempt. That would be:Yao: 25.0 points per 17.1 FGA, 1.46 points/FGAT-Mac: 24.6 points per 20.8 FGA, 1.18 points/FGADrexler (career): 1.26 points/FGASo even including the extra points for 3 point shots, Yao is a much more efficient option. If you like flash over results, McGrady is the man. If you want to go with the guy with the potential to really dominate, you look to Yao. This is only going to be his 6th year playing against real competition, and he was injured the last 2 years. He has improved every year of his career, and after working with Hakeem this off season, I expect big things from him.For what it's worth, the whole team choked in the playoffs this last year, but T-Mac shot even worse than Yao, at 39.4%.Van Gundy needs to remain a color commentary guy. He was spectacular in that role.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jun 20 2007, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My theory is, and will be, until proven wrong, is that these teams that like to run a fast paced offense and score over 110 points a game are good for the regular season, but once they get deep in the playoffs, they won't win. When you get deep, say the conference Finals, you will most likely be playing a good defensive team for 4-7 games, and when the fast paced teams aren't hitting their jumpers, they have no defense to rely on, and I think that's why the Suns haven't made the Finals yet.</div>I agree 100% with this evaluation. It has been proven time and time again over the last 30 years of NBA competition.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordanisoverrated @ Jun 20 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>"He more than makes up for it offensively."This is the attitude of the whole Suns organization, and has been for at least the last 20 years, and it is why they don't win. They think playing poor defense is acceptable.</div>Bollox to that. The Suns would have beaten every team but the Spurs over a 7 game series and they were even better than SA in this recent series. If it wasn't for some iffy calls and the suspensions they would have won.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordanisoverrated @ Jun 20 2007, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree 100% with this evaluation. It has been proven time and time again over the last 30 years of NBA competition.</div>I think it's pretty simple; it's not that fast pace works any worse, it's that there simply often have not been fast paced teams that can win championships. Do you really think the suns would have had a ring by now if they had slowed down the tempo? Fast pace maximized the talent of the suns, it just may have not been enough talent (and luck). But I'll go over the last 30 years and see whether pace has been a correlation to championships or not.1977 Blazers: 7th fastest pace out of 22. 108-106.5*1978 Bullets: 11th fastest out of 22. 108.1-106.7*1979 sonics: 18th out of 22. 103.4-105.81980 Lakers: 8th out of 22. 104.1-103.1*1981 Celtics. 16th out of 23. 100.8-101.81982 Lakers: 4th out of 23. 103.1-100.9*1983 sixers: 16th/23. 102.7-103.11984 Celtics: 15th/23. 99.7-101.41985 Lakers: 9th/23. 103.2-102.1*1986 Celtics: 16th/23. 101.2-102.11987 Lakers: 10th/23. 101.6-100.8*1988 Lakers: 11th/23. 99.1-99.6*In 1988, having a fast paced team was a point of pride and it and defense were not mutually exclusive. The league was at the highest level of play it had ever been at. And then expansion happened, the level of the league was watered down, Lakers got injured, and Detroit took advantage.1989 Pistons: 25th/25. 95.5-100.61990 Pistons: 26/27. 94.4-98.31991 Bulls: 19/27. 95.6-97.81992 Bulls: 22/27. 94.4-96.61993 Bulls: 27/27. 92.5-96.81994 Rockets: 15/27. 95.0-95.11995 Rockets: 10/27. 94.2-92.9*after a few seasons with a 27 team league, the league stabilized from its expansion and pace became a non-factor, until more expansion slowed the league down more.1996 Bulls: 20/29. 91.1-91.81997 Bulls: 18/29. 90-90.11998 Bulls: 22/29. 89-90.31999 Spurs. 19/29. 88.6-88.92000 Lakers. 14/29. 93.3-93.1 *2001 Lakers. 14/29. 91.7-91.3 *2002 Lakers. 6/29. 92.1-90.7 *2003 Spurs. 20/29. 89-902004 Pistons. 24/29. 87.9-90.12005 Spurs. 23/30. 88.9-90.92006 Heat. 12/30. 91.6-90.5*2007 Spurs. 27/30. 89.8-91.9With 12/31 teams having above average pace, and 12/26 having above average pace counting out expansion years and the strike year, it shows pretty clearly that there is very little correlation between victory and pace.The other way to look at the whole pace issue, is that only 8 franchises have won championships since 1980, making just about everything pace related disregardable since there's such a small sample size.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordanisoverrated @ Jun 20 2007, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>"He more than makes up for it offensively."This is the attitude of the whole Suns organization, and has been for at least the last 20 years, and it is why they don't win. They think playing poor defense is acceptable.</div>They don't think that. The defense has made an improvement each year since we started this run and gun style, but to say Nash not being a good defensive player is causing us to lose is stupid. The Suns need to improve defensively by getting a center who can actually play some good minutes, unlike KT. The team actually played really good defense when Kurt Thomas was in the line-up, but he's old and gets worn down easily. The team is almost where it needs to be to win it all. You don't need your superstars playing great defense to win and like Pesty said, pace doesn't really have a big effect on it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Milgod @ Jun 20 2007, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Bollox to that. The Suns would have beaten every team but the Spurs over a 7 game series and they were even better than SA in this recent series. If it wasn't for some iffy calls and the suspensions they would have won.</div>Since I'm not a Suns fan, I hope Kerr and D'Antoni think the same way you do, so that they will again be exiting from the playoffs, and probably blaming the officials for it. I'm certain D'Antoni agrees, but Kerr might not.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tHe_pEsTiLeNcE @ Jun 20 2007, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The other way to look at the whole pace issue, is that only 8 franchises have won championships since 1980, making just about everything pace related disregardable since there's such a small sample size.</div>There is one top 5 in that whole list, and that was the Lakers, who had 2 of the best players in the game's history on the roster. No top 3's.It's teams like the Suns, Warriors, and Mavericks, that overbalance their rosters with offensive players, and give up the most points, that cannot win in the playoffs. They sacrifice defense for offense, and they lose.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordanisoverrated @ Jun 20 2007, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you don't like FG%, look at points scored per FG attempt. That would be:Yao: 25.0 points per 17.1 FGA, 1.46 points/FGAT-Mac: 24.6 points per 20.8 FGA, 1.18 points/FGADrexler (career): 1.26 points/FGASo even including the extra points for 3 point shots, Yao is a much more efficient option. If you like flash over results, McGrady is the man. If you want to go with the guy with the potential to really dominate, you look to Yao. This is only going to be his 6th year playing against real competition, and he was injured the last 2 years. He has improved every year of his career, and after working with Hakeem this off season, I expect big things from him.For what it's worth, the whole team choked in the playoffs this last year, but T-Mac shot even worse than Yao, at 39.4%.Van Gundy needs to remain a color commentary guy. He was spectacular in that role.</div>Again, those stats tell half the story since T-Mac is a streak scorer. He will have his 6-20 nights, but will also explode to drop 50 the next game. Drexler took about 1FGA less than T-Mac to get the same amount of points, but T-Mac being IMO the more dangerous and streaky scorer (due to 3pt shooting) makes him just as effective. And I'd say back to back scoring titles is dominating. Yao has shown he can score points against lesser competition, but he still has a ton of trouble against many of the best low post defenders in the league. Yes, T-Mac shot poorly in the playoffs, but he is also the main reason they won the 3 games they did. He had an amaizng second half to bring the Rockets back in both game 1 & 2 (including the shot that sealed the deal in game 2), in game 5 he had one of the best overall games of his career, and in game 7 he was also spectacular with 29/13/5/3. Yao was EXTREMELY inconsistent in the playoffs, and when he was scoring the team simply didn't respond. When T-Mac was scoring and leading, the team went on huge runs (incluidng 2 game 7 runs, although at the end Utah's offensive rebounding killed the Rockets).I agree, Van Gundy is a very good commentator. He works real well with Mark Jackson.
